A subframe question (just the beginning ...) - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

compress ignite · #76 11-18-2010, 01:40 PM

from the axle shaft to R+R the Outer boot.

Quick "Google" provides:
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=outer+cv+joint+disassembly+124.133&btnG=Google+Search

It's a little more effort (Hence all the Folderol like the "Grease and Funnel Stretch" install method with non Mercedes boots)

Whatever you do ...Use the Mercedes Boots,they will last MUCH longer.

layback40 · #77 11-18-2010, 06:49 PM

I have found that a white wine bottle works better than a funnel for stretching the boot. Champagne bottles are the best as they are much stronger. Be careful it doesnt break in your hands.

Billybob · #78 11-18-2010, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

New question: I order new outer boots for the axles, but from what I gather in the FSM, you have to change the inner boots to get to the outer ones? Am I reading that wrong? The inner boots really don't look as bad, and the metal onto which they attach looks pretty clean too (probably because it was covered in oil from the diff over the years). The replacement kits are pretty expensive to replace something that doesn't look like it's got a problem. The outer ones look a bit cracked (and the one has that deep crack) and rusty underneath so I definitely want to change them ... do I need to do all four or will the boot come off the outer end?

124 axles are a piece of cake to reboot, only a couple simple tools needed, no funnels or wine bottles necessary, except of course for the job well done celebration afterwards!

With the axle out off the vehicle, you carefully tap off with a hammer and punch/drift the stamped metal end cover from the inner CV. With that off you can access the external/OD C-clip which you remove with the proper tool. With that clip removed you cut the steel straps that secure the flexible rubber boot in place. Fold the rubber boot off the metal joint exterior and the entire CV mechanism will pull off the axle's splined end. Then you can remove the inner boot.

With the inner CV joint and boot removed the steel straps securing the outer flexible rubber boot are cut and the outer boot can be slid off the axle.

Then one can determine if the outer CV joint should be cleaned and re-lubed along with a new rubber boot or simply rebooted. If you are going to clean and re-lube, the CV grease is usually a real pain for any parts cleaner solvent but gasoline despite all the dangers is a very effective and inexpensive solvent for it. I usually use about a gallon in paint can to get most of it dissolved and out then another can to give that a rinse and then either a third can rinse or some carb or brake cleaner spray to get the last rinse.

Auto Zone rents a CV joint strap tool if you don't own one. Because these axles are so easy to do even generic boots that cost significantly less than MB OE parts are a reasonable alternative, you just need to find ones that are a decent fit. The good thing about the MB OE is they will likely last another 2-300,000 miles and you get MB grease and straps with the kit. Good luck!

BodhiBenz1987 · #79 11-18-2010, 10:52 PM

Thanks guys. It kind of sounds like disassembling the inners might just be easier. Aside from the clips, is there anything I have to replace if I disassemble the inner joints? I.e., should I order more things ahead of time. I ordered new boots and clips for the outer joints at the dealership. Maybe I should just order the inner joint kit and save it if I don't use it. I'm so tired of getting on a roll, then having to wait for parts I suddenly discover I need. I'm hoping my boots and the XZN bit I ordered come in tomorrow because otherwise I won't have them until Monday, and I really want to make some progress this weekend!!! I did so well last weekend, then did nothing this week. Work makes it kind of hard but I guess a lot of people have that problem. I guess at the very least I can clean the diff and all those XZN bolts, and finish up my rust repair under the car.

BodhiBenz1987 · #80 11-22-2010, 08:10 PM

Progress report: One axle is off, after much meticulous cleaning out of the XZN heads. I used the air wrench to get all off ... much easier than trying to keep the axle from turning while using a conventional wrench. I also used the air wrench for the axle nuts, which really, really didn't want to come off. One came off pretty easily, but the first one I had to torch quite a bit. Though the one that had the nut come off easier doesn't want to back out of the wheel carrier. And I didn't want to hit it to hard. I didn't have time to do anything today but tomorrow I'll try torching it a little. I think the other one tapped out easily because it was heated quite a bit when I heated the nut, maybe? We'll see. I'm going to replace all the boots. The inner ones have small cracks too; it would just be stupid not to replace them while I'm taking them apart, the cracks aren't going to heal.

I also finished up the rust work and will post some pics when I get around to it.
Oh, and I'm glad I bought new wheel carrier bearings, because I discovered the old ones are basically not there. They totally fell apart and it's just the spring link hanging on the bolt. I hope the metal part isn't a pain to get out. I was going to try to use a bolt and socket set-up to put the new ones in ... hopefully won't need the special tool for that.
One question: The bolts on the diff mounts are 12mm, correct? Because the 10mm is very loose in there, but the 12mm really will not go in at all. They're quite rusted (surprise surprise) so maybe I just need to clean them up more. But didn't want to mes them up if I'm wrong.

babymog · #81 11-22-2010, 08:20 PM

You might be surprised how easily the new bushings will slide in if you chill them first. I've used liquid nitrogen, but not on things (like these) that have flexible boots, you might try dry-ice.

Billybob · #82 11-22-2010, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

One question: The bolts on the diff mounts are 12mm, correct? Because the 10mm is very loose in there, but the 12mm really will not go in at all. They're quite rusted (surprise surprise) so maybe I just need to clean them up more. But didn't want to mes them up if I'm wrong.

Yeah 12 mm, if you don't already have some and you need to buy another tool! Auto Zone has these:

"OEM 1/2" Drive Metric Hex Bit Set 12, 14, and 17 MM, Part #25417, with a lifetime warranty for less than $10."

vstech · #83 11-22-2010, 09:35 PM

as long as the oil is not in the bolt, rust is a great grit for keeping the bolts from slipping out of the tool...

BodhiBenz1987 · #84 11-22-2010, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

Yeah 12 mm, if you don't already have some and you need to buy another tool! Auto Zone has these:

"OEM 1/2" Drive Metric Hex Bit Set 12, 14, and 17 MM, Part #25417, with a lifetime warranty for less than $10."

I have one but it won't fit in the hole.

It's from Harbor Freight and the other bits in the kit have worked fine. I'm sure they're not the best but it's weird that it would be the wrong size ... maybe I'll buy the AutoZone ones just to make sure. I'll check the bolts carefully first though, maybe there's some dirt chunked up in there that I didn't notice before.

BodhiBenz1987 · #85 11-27-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

124 axles are a piece of cake to reboot, only a couple simple tools needed, no funnels or wine bottles necessary, except of course for the job well done celebration afterwards!

With the axle out off the vehicle, you carefully tap off with a hammer and punch/drift the stamped metal end cover from the inner CV. With that off you can access the external/OD C-clip which you remove with the proper tool. With that clip removed you cut the steel straps that secure the flexible rubber boot in place. Fold the rubber boot off the metal joint exterior and the entire CV mechanism will pull off the axle's splined end. Then you can remove the inner boot.

With the inner CV joint and boot removed the steel straps securing the outer flexible rubber boot are cut and the outer boot can be slid off the axle.

Then one can determine if the outer CV joint should be cleaned and re-lubed along with a new rubber boot or simply rebooted. If you are going to clean and re-lube, the CV grease is usually a real pain for any parts cleaner solvent but gasoline despite all the dangers is a very effective and inexpensive solvent for it. I usually use about a gallon in paint can to get most of it dissolved and out then another can to give that a rinse and then either a third can rinse or some carb or brake cleaner spray to get the last rinse.

Auto Zone rents a CV joint strap tool if you don't own one. Because these axles are so easy to do even generic boots that cost significantly less than MB OE parts are a reasonable alternative, you just need to find ones that are a decent fit. The good thing about the MB OE is they will likely last another 2-300,000 miles and you get MB grease and straps with the kit. Good luck!

Just a few clarifications/questions on the axles (my parts finally came in, had to wait out the holiday):
-I keep reading all these posts while searching about what a nightmare disassembling the axle is ... most of these are about w123 or other models, so am I to assume the w124's design is easier? The way the FSM describes the job (and from how you describe it), I don't understand why everyone wants to avoid it in these other threads?
-As for cleaning out the old grease, would mineral spirits be OK, with brake cleaner to touch up. I think that's how I did my wheel bearings and it worked well.
-I'm going to clean up the rust on the exterior of the axles, but wasn't sure if I should use any POR15 when finished. Maybe this is a silly thought, but would it affect the way the boot sits on there, or balance? Same with the differential ... it has some light surface rust on the top (the rest is protected by oil and more oil) and I was wondering if I ought to paint it after cleaning it up?

Edit to add another one: GREASE. The inner boots came with a tube each of MB grease, but for some reason they don't sell it separately at the dealer. The outers did not come with grease, and the parts guys said wheel bearing grease is fine. Can someone confirm this? If not, what's best? Also ... in the FSM is describes exact amounts of grease for "internal" and "external" grease fill. I believe 120g each. Even after reading through the job description, I don't understand what this means. 120g in the joint and 120 in the boot? Or 120 for inner joint and 120 for outer joint. Each inner kit came with 120g of grease.

That's all for now ... off to try to remove the diff and the wheel carriers from the old frame and hopefully get the latter on the "new" subframe.

vstech · #86 11-27-2010, 08:11 PM

if your can is severely rusted like it looks in the pictures, I'd take it to a wire wheel, and get all traces of the rust removed, then use the por-15 kit to treat all exposed metal with it.
I'd NEVER use wheel bearing grease in a CV joint!!!!
only job specific alxe lube grease, or Mobil1 Synthetic gear oil.

BodhiBenz1987 · #87 11-27-2010, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

if your can is severely rusted like it looks in the pictures, I'd take it to a wire wheel, and get all traces of the rust removed, then use the por-15 kit to treat all exposed metal with it.
I'd NEVER use wheel bearing grease in a CV joint!!!!
only job specific alxe lube grease, or Mobil1 Synthetic gear oil.

Will axle-specific lube from Autozone or NAPA be good enough? I have Mobil 1 gear oil, but how can you pack the joint with oil? Inject it into the boot?
When using the grease, do I need to put some grease inside the boot in addition to the joint itself?
Maybe I'm overengineering this ...

. But I'd really not find out down the road that I did something wrong after all the time and money I've spent.

BodhiBenz1987 · #88 11-27-2010, 11:50 PM

Ahhhhhhh it never ends ... now I noticed one of the hubs is "loose," as in I can grab the rotor and wiggle it quite a bit. I may have caused it myself because I was trying to knock the rotor off with a rubber mallet (not with titanic swings or anything though). This was the same side that the funny axle boot came off, so maybe that wheel was involved in some incident. I'll do some research. Maybe it's a bearing thing. Whatever it is, it's one more thing I don't know anything about to address before I can get my car on the road again. I think I'm taking longer on this project than most people take restoring whole cars.

On the bright side I'm certainly learning a lot. This is like graduate school.

Other than that, I did get the differential off the frame (a little bit of progress), so it's sitting on a scissor jack and block of wood where I can clean it up. I also got the other axle out ... it had some rust-dust on the splines and no grease, whereas the other one had some grease and is rust-free. Will clean that up when I clean up the axles, which I didn't get to tonight. Had late T-giving meal with the family which was great but I didn't get much time to work.
I also got a few bolts loose connecting the arms to the hub, but kind of stuck because I can't get the rotor off, so I can't get to the dust shield, which I need to turn or remove. I just ran out of energy and gave up for the night.
I'll do a search on rear wheel bearings, but if anyone has any advice on the wobbly rear hub ...

layback40 · #89 11-28-2010, 12:32 AM

Is it the hub or the brake disk?
If its the disk, its not a worry as the lug bolts are not holding the disk tight.
If it is the hub then you have a wheel bearing job to do.

BodhiBenz1987 · #90 11-28-2010, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

Is it the hub or the brake disk?
If its the disk, its not a worry as the lug bolts are not holding the disk tight.
If it is the hub then you have a wheel bearing job to do.

It's the hub.

The rotor is totally glued on by rust. Do you think I damaged the bearing by whacking the rotor? Or can I at least tell myself this problem was already there? I think I knocked it loose because I never felt play in that wheel before when I checked. Mad at myself. I really don't want to buy more tools and more parts. Though I guess pressing the bearing in won't be too bad because I have a nice big press.