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  #1  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:33 PM
arcticathlon's Avatar
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headgasket issue 190d

I think i have a bad headgasket in my 1987 190d. i want to do an auto to manual swap soon, but still have to address this issue (probably will go before the swap). so i am trying to find a "how-to guide" for the w201, but am not finding anything on the forum.

What is the difficulty of this task, and how much does it cost for an Indie to do. also when the engine open already, what else should I be doing in there.

Dan

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Grey '91 350SDL 214k
Beige '81 240D 4 Speed 254k
Blue '82 300D 225k
White '95 E300D 46k SOLD
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Beige '80 300D N/A 119k SOLD
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  #2  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:49 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
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Pulling the head is straightforward in these cars. The only tool you might not have is the triple square or double hex bit for the head bolts. You can get the proper tool for about $25 or a set of cheapo bits you slip into a 1/2" socket for half that. The rest of the set is useful if you work on an M102/3(/4?) and the rear suspension.

I can't think of any while-you're-in-there's other than thorough cleaning. It's a good time to check the lifters and replace any that have collapsed. If you don't have lifter noise, don't bother. You might find the upper chain guide is worn but that can be replaced without pulling the head. If the tensioner guide is worn, that'll require pulling the crank damper and front cover and a whole other can of worms.

A possible can of worms is checking IP timing. If the o-ring between the IP and block hasn't been replaced in a while (or ever), it can break leading to an oil leak if you adjust IP timing after putting the engine back together. There's no reason to touch the IP when pulling the head so there's no pressing need to check IP timing if you're happy with performance. But you might find pointy cogs on the cam sprocket in which case you should get a new sprocket and roll in a new chain. Then you should check IP timing.

A friend of mine just had the head gasket done on his 93 2.5. Cost about $2500 because the shop felt it needed new valve guides. Valve guides aren't a common problem with these cars even at 300K miles. Stick with MB brand valve seals if you feel the need. And consider farming out that job because you need $pecial tool$ to remove the valve springs.

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87 300D
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  #3  
Old 09-04-2010, 03:12 PM
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well if it is not super hard, then i would rather try to replace it myself. i will need to find some pictorial guides, so i can see what all is involved in removing, cleaning and putting back together.

My indie is the kind that will find all kinds of other things that have gone wrong, not that it is bad to get at all the items, but i don't think most will be necessary. but i digress...

anyone know of a good step by step, so i can gauge if i can tackle this myself?
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Blue '82 300D 225k
White '95 E300D 46k SOLD
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Beige '80 300D N/A 119k SOLD
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  #4  
Old 09-04-2010, 10:08 PM
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I did it on my '86 2.5 NA. Took me about 7 months, very carefully going through everything and spending way too much. I had a machine shop rebuild the head - that was $550. Replaced pretty much everything on the front end of the motor w/the exception of the AC cmprsr and alt. Did not replace timing cover either. I wanted to get another 250K out of the engine before I pulled it for a total rebuild. So far so good.

Be prepared for your own "while yer in theres"


Get an FSM. The FSM is pretty clear and straightforward, if I did it again I would pull the engine and it would take me a week.
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  #5  
Old 09-04-2010, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
Pulling the head is straightforward in these cars. The only tool you might not have is the triple square or double hex bit for the head bolts. You can get the proper tool for about $25 or a set of cheapo bits you slip into a 1/2" socket for half that.
Check with the dealership I got this tool there for $18 - Hazet 2751 M10 XZN
MB # 601 589 00 10 00

as mentioned by Sixto it is used on some of the rear suspension links, it also is used on updated bolts securing the axles to the diff flanges, some front strut's have this as a counter hold rather than an Allen head, and some alternators have this as the counter hold for their shaft when you use the 22 mm socket on the nut securing the serpentine grooved pulley.

If your doing the auto-manual swap pulling the engine and tranny to get everything done out of the car may very well be quicker and definately easier in the long run, doing the cylinder head will be easier out of the car also. If you can pull it out that might be something to consider.
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2010, 01:31 PM
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odd answer from shop

so i called a shop in Houston to see what they would charge for the Headgasket work, and he said that the 602 and 603's dont run the same after the headgasket work. He said that they have issues with the prechambers resealing and the machined head to work. He pretty much said that he is reluctant to take on the project, and recommends just running it until dead and then getting a crate motor.

my car is not in the shape where i will put an 8k motor in it, and i was overall surprised. is this an anomaly, and does anyone else share his view?
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  #7  
Old 09-07-2010, 02:07 PM
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smoke gets in your eyes
 
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Metric Motors won't refurbish a 603 #14 head but they will refurbish a 602 head. That suggests it can be done successfully. You might call them to see what a refurbished head costs as the high end cost of the project.

We didn't get into why you think you need a head gasket. If the symptoms don't suggest a pressing need for any head work, replace the gasket without touching the head. That'll keep costs down to a couple hundred dollars plus your time.

Sixto
87 300D
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  #8  
Old 09-07-2010, 02:53 PM
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Just to add some fuel to the fire, here are my reasons why i think i need the head gasket to be replaced.

1. Brown coolant
2. I have to add 20oz of water to my reservoir every month
3. when sitting at a light, and i look out the window, i can see white smoke passing by my window (when the wind is right).

I could have completely misdiagnosed this, but does anyone have any input?
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Blue '82 300D 225k
White '95 E300D 46k SOLD
Blue '87 190D 2.5 Turbo 315k SOLD
Brown '80 240D 4 Speed 716k SOLD
Beige '80 300D N/A 119k SOLD
Blue '85 300D Model 186k T-Boned
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2010, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticathlon View Post
so i called a shop in Houston to see what they would charge for the Headgasket work, and he said that the 602 and 603's dont run the same after the headgasket work. He said that they have issues with the prechambers resealing and the machined head to work. He pretty much said that he is reluctant to take on the project, and recommends just running it until dead and then getting a crate motor.

my car is not in the shape where i will put an 8k motor in it, and i was overall surprised. is this an anomaly, and does anyone else share his view?
My personal take on the remarks made at the shop in Houston is hogwash. My machinist (Brian at Bearing Service Portland) avoids #14's as policy but has many success stories (including mine) under his belt. I guess Mercedes heads are what separate men from boys in the realm of the machinist.
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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater.
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  #10  
Old 09-07-2010, 07:24 PM
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well, then it comes down to who i can find close to houston that is willing to do it well.
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Grey '91 350SDL 214k
Beige '81 240D 4 Speed 254k
Blue '82 300D 225k
White '95 E300D 46k SOLD
Blue '87 190D 2.5 Turbo 315k SOLD
Brown '80 240D 4 Speed 716k SOLD
Beige '80 300D N/A 119k SOLD
Blue '85 300D Model 186k T-Boned
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  #11  
Old 09-08-2010, 03:18 PM
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The original head on the '87 190D suffers the same weakness as the original #14 head on the '87 300D. My '87 190D required a new head (although ironically I've never had a head problem with 4 #14 300D heads, ... yet).

Hopefully it is a gasket, but be prepared and check for a crack when you disassemble if the car has the original head (casting numbers are listed in the FSM).
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2010, 03:55 PM
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The gaskets on all the om60x's were prone to failure from my understanding. Poor materials.
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2010, 05:54 PM
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I don't know about materials, but there was a re-design that changed some of the metal parts and hole shapes.

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