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  #1  
Old 10-12-2010, 03:36 PM
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Quick and dirty water injection?

So I bought an 82 300SD that has a Lovecraft conversion ...yeah, I know

Anyway, I know the former owners, they bought the car without the conversion, had it put in, then hardly used it. When they did run WVO, they were meticulous about settling and filtering, so I'm not really worried about major damage. Also, it has the Davco 234+ filter which you can get good filter elements for, so I don't think I'll bother to remove the system - at this point, it just preheats my diesel.

Anyway, what I'm wondering about, is the quickest easiest way to set up a temporary water injection system to clean out the carbon from running cold veggie. I'm planning on a nozzle change sometime next spring, but I'd like to remove any buildup first. Not looking for horsepower, just a good steam cleaning...

I have searched a bit, but I keep getting distracted by talk of vnt's and oversized ip elements. I need to get it mechanically sound first!

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  #2  
Old 10-12-2010, 05:59 PM
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Couple things -

-Supposedly heated diesel is bad. Decreased lubricity with temperature is what I am told. We are repeatedly warned over at Frybrid not to run heated diesel in our 2 tank kits.

-There are a couple folks over at the Frybrid.com WVO forum who have installed water injection setups for this very purpose. Most of the ones I am familiar with are on Powerstrokes, Cummins, and Duramax engines - but some have done it on a 617. I have no idea what a good flow rate would be for the 617, but there are water injection nozzles and tanks out there for use.

And don't forget if you are just injecting water you need to worry about ice.
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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car
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  #3  
Old 10-12-2010, 10:51 PM
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Thanks for the info on the heated diesel. I wouldn't have even considered that, but it makes sense. I'll have to check out my plumbing to see if I can just block those heat hoses for the time being. I don't really want to completely remove the system, because I might make it a 2 tank at some point, but perhaps a valve to shut off the heat.
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  #4  
Old 10-13-2010, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelicious View Post
Thanks for the info on the heated diesel. I wouldn't have even considered that, but it makes sense. I'll have to check out my plumbing to see if I can just block those heat hoses for the time being. I don't really want to completely remove the system, because I might make it a 2 tank at some point, but perhaps a valve to shut off the heat.
If I were in your shoes, I would completely remove the kit and drive the car for 5000 miles on petrodiesel before making any decisions. Test the compression. Test the injectors. Does it start in the cold? Burn oil? All that stuff needs to be figured out.

During that time, drink from the firehose about 2-tank kits. Most of the parts of the Lovecraft kit are not going to be used in a proper 2 tank setup.
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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car
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  #5  
Old 10-13-2010, 07:16 AM
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Have you pulled an injector to see if there really is buildup? or done a compression test? I tend to like to have proof that there is a problem to fix, rather then just assuming there is one. This is why I ask.

On my Dodge, I do have a valve to turn off heat to the veggie side so I can run diesel in the second tank. I do a lot of long distance driving, and do not always have veggie available, so this lets me run diesel as needed. By the way 50,000 miles of veggie use so far no problems. Pulled the injectors about a month ago, very little carbon, about what you would expect if running on diesel.
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  #6  
Old 10-13-2010, 02:54 PM
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I haven't done a compression test yet, but I'm sure from the poor cold starts (yes, I tested the gp's) and a couple other things that there is a bit of blow by happening. I want to do the water injection to get the carbon/gunk buildup off the rings so I can get a real compression reading before I start throwing a ton of effort and money at the rig. It not like this is my only means of transportation, but it is fun to drive and gets decent mileage.

As far as the lovecraft conversion goes, as near as I can tell, it amounts to:
1 auxiliary electric fuel pump
2 a heat exchanger that bolts in place of the stock fuel filter
3 the Davco 234+ which is just a heated housing version of Davco's water separator/filter. It seem to be good quality and replacement filters down to 2 micron are commonly available.

This version doesn't have that goldenrod housing with the washable bag filter. There might be some fuel routing changes, I'm not sure yet, but I see no reason any of it would be incompatible with a two tank system. I'll grant that using coolant as the ONLY source of fuel heat doesn't seem that smart (my temp gauge goes down to 60c on some long downhills around here). Trust me, I have been doing a LOT of reading.
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  #7  
Old 10-13-2010, 02:57 PM
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here ya go. http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html
I've been wanting to do this for some time, but i've never had the disposable income to spend getting everything set up.
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  #8  
Old 10-13-2010, 07:26 PM
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Several weeks back my 300sd had been running very poorly. This is after about 75-80K on a 2 tank WVO set up. It was idling rough and lacked power on the highway. It felt like a clogged filter so I changed both filters. It continued to run poorly. It was difficult to maitain 80mph. One day while leaving work I decided to try and clean it out. I filled the wiper resevoir with water, removed the hose connection from under the hood. I poped the top off the air cleaner and stuffed the hose down the intake. Most of the ride home I kept hitting the wiper/washer switch. You can feel the motor bog slightly(have to be careful not to hydrolock it with too much water). This was all done at highway speeds. When i got home the resevoir was empty. I replaced the hose etc.
I was very surprised to find that it now runs as good as ever. I really didnot expect such good results. If I didnot do this myself I would not believe it. I must caution though that I am at the point where I am considering replacing this car because of rust and age issues and really felt like I had nothing to lose. I don't think I would have attempted this on a better vehicle.
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  #9  
Old 10-13-2010, 08:33 PM
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Windshield washer fluid is what is normally used in water injection. It is methanol, and water. Keeps it from freezing and gives some fuel value.
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  #10  
Old 10-13-2010, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulc66t View Post
...I filled the wiper resevoir with water, removed the hose connection from under the hood. I poped the top off the air cleaner and stuffed the hose down the intake. Most of the ride home I kept hitting the wiper/washer switch. You can feel the motor bog slightly(have to be careful not to hydrolock it with too much water). This was all done at highway speeds. When i got home the resevoir was empty. I replaced the hose etc.
I was very surprised to find that it now runs as good as ever...
Now that's the kind of "quick and dirty" I was talking about!
I had been thinking along the same lines, maybe with a motorcycle carb jet hose clamped to the end of the tube for a little bit of flow control and misting effect. Not a permanent mod, just a quick engine steam cleaning.

I've seen posts by others that indicate that with this particular engine, there really aren't any significant performance gains to be had with water/methanol. The gains to be had by cleaning up the carbon though... I figure running a couple gallons through as a cleaning cycle every fifty or hundred thou (maybe less with wvo) could be a simple way to keep the system clean. Run the water, then do an oil change and a valve adjustment.

If I was planning on a permanent system, I'd pay for the wiper fluid, but its only temporary and it isn't freezing around here yet.
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  #11  
Old 10-13-2010, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelicious View Post
I'll grant that using coolant as the ONLY source of fuel heat doesn't seem that smart (my temp gauge goes down to 60c on some long downhills around here).
My 2 tank kit keeps the WVO at 180F in all weather and driving conditions, with a stock 80C thermostat. I do adjust the amount the radiator is blocked with the season (using a $.99 piece of posterboard I cut to size). The only caveat is I cannot blast the cabin heat for long periods of time and maintain that temp in the winter.

On W123's, IMHO depending on electrical heat is a *bad* idea - the stock alternator doesn't have much capacity left to run heaters. And electric heaters mean big power and fire risks.
__________________
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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car
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  #12  
Old 10-13-2010, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulc66t View Post
Several weeks back my 300sd had been running very poorly. This is after about 75-80K on a 2 tank WVO set up. It was idling rough and lacked power on the highway. It felt like a clogged filter so I changed both filters. It continued to run poorly. It was difficult to maitain 80mph. One day while leaving work I decided to try and clean it out. I filled the wiper resevoir with water, removed the hose connection from under the hood. I poped the top off the air cleaner and stuffed the hose down the intake. Most of the ride home I kept hitting the wiper/washer switch. You can feel the motor bog slightly(have to be careful not to hydrolock it with too much water). This was all done at highway speeds. When i got home the resevoir was empty. I replaced the hose etc.
I was very surprised to find that it now runs as good as ever. I really didnot expect such good results. If I didnot do this myself I would not believe it. I must caution though that I am at the point where I am considering replacing this car because of rust and age issues and really felt like I had nothing to lose. I don't think I would have attempted this on a better vehicle.
Wow...Paul that's great.

I could imagine a slightly less quick and dirty setup for steam cleaning that incorporated a modified air filter housing top with an actual water injection nozzle mounted in it. It could be hooked up to the washer reservoir like yours and run for 50 miles as a maintenance procedure every so often.
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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car
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  #13  
Old 10-14-2010, 12:39 AM
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I've got a guy who'll rewind alternators to a higher spec for me, and I had figured on doing that eventually. Blocking the radiator would be maddening around here. We don't really have seasons in the Northwest - its more like a daily crap shoot for the weather. 2 springs ago I got a sunburn sleeping in my buddies boat without a shirt - it was probably 85 or so, 6 days later it snowed on us. Either way, WVO isn't really a priority at this point. I figure I'll collect the parts as I come into them.

As far as the air cleaner, I had figured on drilling a hole that I could put a plug in and just feed the hose in when I want it, but I like the permanent nozzle even better!
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  #14  
Old 10-14-2010, 07:52 AM
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On W123's, IMHO depending on electrical heat is a *bad* idea - the stock alternator doesn't have much capacity left to run heaters. And electric heaters mean big power and fire risks. 
DD44- I agree. I have replaced atleast 5 alternators on my car until I realized the excess electric load was killing them. I upgraded from 50 amp to the 65 amp version which helped some but even these can't keep up. I have a Vegatherm and an electric heater on my filter that I won't run any more because of this. Luckily all the alternators were covered under lifetime waranty. Another option is to go to the Saab/Bosch alternator w 90-120 amps.?

Paul
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  #15  
Old 10-14-2010, 07:52 AM
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I don't think feeding in water pre-turbo is good for it. Do some research before continueing with the practice.

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