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  #1  
Old 10-25-2010, 12:29 PM
muleears's Avatar
Old MB Driver
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
Does my car sit higher than normal?

My new '83 SD. It looks nose high in the pic but acutally sits level. Has new shocks but seems to ride stiff for an SD. Why and/or how would it be raised? I looked under it and didn't see anything unusual, but then I'm not a suspension expert either. The gap between the top of the front wheel and fender seems excessive. What do you all think?

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Does my car sit higher than normal?-car_picture.jpg  
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2010, 12:30 PM
Aquaticedge's Avatar
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pic makes it look like the engine is out of it or something.
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  #3  
Old 10-25-2010, 12:33 PM
muleears's Avatar
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Nope. Motor is still in it. I'll try to get a better pic and post it later.
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #4  
Old 10-25-2010, 12:38 PM
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Do you have a Jack under the engine? In the middle of replacing your motor mounts?

I've never seen the front end of an old car sit up that high.

Wait.

How much weight do you have in the trunk???

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  #5  
Old 10-25-2010, 12:52 PM
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Very high at the nose.
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  #6  
Old 10-25-2010, 01:28 PM
Stretch's Avatar
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Above the springs the W126 and W123 have rubber spacers... you should be able to see the rim of this rubber spacer (sometimes referred to as a shim) poking down from the top of the spring "pocket". On the edge of this spacer you should also be able to find a number of nubs.

For the front I believe you can get 1,2 or 3. Compare this with the back springs - here you can have 1,2,3, or 4 I think...

Now I'm not saying you need the same number on the front and the back - that isn't necessarily how it works - but if you happen to have 1 nub on the back and 3 on the front then you could be getting a bit of a wheelie effect.

If you want to see a bit about checking if your suspension is level I have gone through the FSM procedure with self made special tools (a bit of wood) for my W123 in this thread:-

How I adjusted the toe in / out, camber and caster on my W123 300D

Scroll to post # 4 - to save yourself some reading!


If this doesn't help then I guess the best way of sorting this out is to check the uncompressed length of your springs - this means taking 'em out... so before you get to doing complicated things check for simple things like wheel size and tyre sizes first.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Last edited by Stretch; 10-25-2010 at 01:30 PM. Reason: More info
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  #7  
Old 10-25-2010, 01:38 PM
muleears's Avatar
Old MB Driver
 
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Here is a better pic. It doesn't sit nose high. Just higher than I think it should be.
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Does my car sit higher than normal?-car2picture.jpg  
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2010, 01:40 PM
muleears's Avatar
Old MB Driver
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
Above the springs the W126 and W123 have rubber spacers... you should be able to see the rim of this rubber spacer (sometimes referred to as a shim) poking down from the top of the spring "pocket". On the edge of this spacer you should also be able to find a number of nubs.

For the front I believe you can get 1,2 or 3. Compare this with the back springs - here you can have 1,2,3, or 4 I think...

Now I'm not saying you need the same number on the front and the back - that isn't necessarily how it works - but if you happen to have 1 nub on the back and 3 on the front then you could be getting a bit of a wheelie effect.

If you want to see a bit about checking if your suspension is level I have gone through the FSM procedure with self made special tools (a bit of wood) for my W123 in this thread:-

How I adjusted the toe in / out, camber and caster on my W123 300D

Scroll to post # 4 - to save yourself some reading!


If this doesn't help then I guess the best way of sorting this out is to check the uncompressed length of your springs - this means taking 'em out... so before you get to doing complicated things check for simple things like wheel size and tyre sizes first.
If it had these extra spacers would it ride stiffer too?
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2010, 01:51 PM
muleears's Avatar
Old MB Driver
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
Found the problem, or part of it. Tire rack says the standard tire for this car is 195/70-14 it has 215/70/15's on it. Apparently some PO wanted the newer wheel style. Would this make it look this high though?
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #10  
Old 10-25-2010, 02:07 PM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
If it had these extra spacers would it ride stiffer too?
Unlikely - and they aren't "extra" spacers - you need a spacer in there. You just have a choice of thicknesses... that should be used in accordance with the procedure in the FSM for getting the car level. I get the impression though they get used to give a lower look to a car and sometimes to make a sagging back end look a little bit more healthy (when in fact it would probably benefit from a rear end rebuild).

Your car does look a bit high - MBeige posted some pictures of W123s and W124s with dimensions on them - I'll see if I can find a link for you - there could have been a W126 in there too...


EDIT:-

Not the link I was talking about but:-

MB Blueprints and Chassis Dimensions, drawings

The thread I was talking about is here:-

T124 (wagon) ride height?

No W126 though - sorry!
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Last edited by Stretch; 10-25-2010 at 02:20 PM. Reason: Added link
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  #11  
Old 10-25-2010, 02:12 PM
Stretch's Avatar
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Output from a tyre calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
Found the problem, or part of it. Tire rack says the standard tire for this car is 195/70-14 it has 215/70/15's on it. Apparently some PO wanted the newer wheel style. Would this make it look this high though?
Here's an output from a tyre size calculator...

You have a difference of about 2.5cm in the wheel radius - so I guess not
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Does my car sit higher than normal?-tyre_size_output.jpeg  
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2010, 02:46 PM
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Any chance your springs were replaced with either 420SE(L) or 560SE(L) gasser springs? Way out there but I can't think of anything except maybe SUPER thick spacers in there that would make the front sit that high. There should be paint markings on the springs themselves which denote which ones they are...unfortunately I don't have what paint codes pertain to which rate/size.
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2010, 03:03 PM
brainlair's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
Found the problem, or part of it. Tire rack says the standard tire for this car is 195/70-14 it has 215/70/15's on it. Apparently some PO wanted the newer wheel style. Would this make it look this high though?

The 15" rims and tires will make the overall height of the car *slightly* higher, but it wouldn't cause any difference in height between the front and back.


I can tell you right now that the main problem is old springs in the back- 25 years and 1000 pounds apiece will do a number on the temper of the steel... The rear bushings are also a problem, but to a lesser extent, the springs are the main culprit.

I just replaced all the springs, shocks and bushings on my '84 last weekend and it went from pointing its nose to the sky like yours to being dead level. It had 3 nub shims in the front and 2 nub in the rear with the original springs. Now i've got a set of H&R sport springs with 3 nub on both sides.

If you want to make it look and ride like new, replacing the springs and bushings is what's needed. However, if you just want it to sit level, you'll probably be able to accomplish that with the proper combination of thicker rear and thinner front spring shims. Unfortunately, both of these solutions require access to a spring compressor.

Have you looked under the car yet to see what shims are in there now?
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  #14  
Old 10-25-2010, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
My new '83 SD. It looks nose high in the pic but acutally sits level. Has new shocks but seems to ride stiff for an SD. Why and/or how would it be raised? I looked under it and didn't see anything unusual, but then I'm not a suspension expert either. The gap between the top of the front wheel and fender seems excessive. What do you all think?
Yes. Way too high.

It looks like the engine was just pulled! The 1950s car suspension modification look was just as your's is.
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  #15  
Old 10-25-2010, 04:11 PM
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According to that chart from member Army the 215's are 2.11 inches taller overall than the 195s. So I bet your car looks about 2" too tall.

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