New Monarks are in but.....problem
 

I replaced my original injectors tonight with a set of Monarks.

The car is more loud now, almost like it "could" be nailing. I have not heard that before, but it is more metallic sounding, if that makes sense. I thought it would quiet down a bit with these injectors.

Also, it seems that I have a leak from my prechamber. See this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWk4vxc5coo

From what I've read, this could be the return lines leaking. (I did re-use them) or the injector not tightened all the way.

What do ya'll think?

bubbling around the base of the injector, did you reuse your heat shields?

Brand new heat shields, they came with the injectors.

I also researched and made sure I put them in the correct way.

New injectors are going to be louder for the first 200 miles or so. The FSM covers that. Nothing to worry about there.

However the leaking pre-chamber is a problem. I wonder if when you took the injector out it loosened the prechamber nut a little bit?

Saw the video
 

What did you torque them to?

Also, when removing the old ones did you put even pressure on the ratchet/bar or 'snap' it?

Where the Injectors completely rebuilt are was this a Diesel Giant type Nozzle Swap?

You may or may not have a leak around the Heat Shield of the Prechamer. When fluid seeps past the Injector to Prechamber Ring/Collar threads it gets into space in there.

The heat and the shock wave created by the Fuel Burning (before the Engines warmed up and it is running put your Finger on and around the area of the Injector and see what you can feel) causes the liquid bubble out as if there is a leak.

It also could be a good time to re-time your Fuel Injection Pump.

Did you pop test the injectors and check the spray pattern? I put new monarks from DG into an old body and it was horrible. After going through a couple spare injectors I got one to crack at 135 bar and spray perfect.

When removing I put the ratchet on and hit it with a hammer to break them free, I knew not to put steady pressure on them.

I torqued them to 50 ft/lbs. (However, this was a torque wrench from HF)

Perhaps some new heat shields and a proper wrench is in order.

Complete injector, brand new.

I had Sean Watts rebuild mine with Monarch nozzles. They were so loud I thought something was wrong with the engine. But, I also had some air leaks in the fuel system. Find your fuel/air leaks. The new injectors will quiet down and so will your engine.

You must have loosened the prechamer when you "broke" them loose. You should have applied slow and steady pressure until they came loose.

no.
this is a bad practice. smacking the breaker bar is the best way to get them out.
if a PC gets loose this way it would have gotten loose and totally unscrewed itself with steady pressure.

OK, here is my plan of attack. Please correct me if need be:)

1. I'm going to order new heat shields and new return lines.
2. Remove my injectors, install new heat shields and torque with a borrowed torque wrench from work (snap-on, and calibrated) 50 ft/lbs correct?
3. Install new return lines
4. Check for bubbling around PC

Can I use something to clean around and in the PC while the injectors are out?

I did notice some carbon in there when I had the injectors out, but didn't clean it with anything other than a shop rag. Perhaps this is the source of my leak.

You could have an injector leaking between the body and the nozzle. A good practice is to hone the parts with 1000 grit paper on a surface plate.

That engine sounds fine to me.

I was going to respond no, until I read the carbon part... yeah, get a new set of each, and get in there well with a good dental pic until the seats and threads are all clean steel! I noticed that pb blaster does a good job of softening the carbon on the threads! also, if you didn't clean out the carbon, you could have an extra shield in there, I've pulled heads with 3 in it before! clean until you can see the bottom of the PC quite clean!

mmm, this is like the "frog up" / "frog down" (a frog is the depression in an english clay brick) debate with brickies.

I have heard adherents to both schools of thought, and both seem to get away with it and get caught out about the same amount, so there doesn't seem to be a lot in it.

There is also the "pull when hot" and "pull when cold" schools, which also seems to split fairly evenly in efficacy.

Myself, I prefer the steady pressure method, the jerk method is after all what a windy gun uses... plus you get the "feel" doing it by hand.

FWIW, I did pull the injectors with the engine hot.

Daring, I wouldnt have. Diesel+Heat is a bad combo though it takes more then engine heat (I hope) to set off Diesel, I still wouldnt have.

????? you can drop a lit match or lit cigarette into cold diesel and it will go out....

Diesel has to be raised to 250-275 degrees C to burn... you could spray diesel on an engine block all day long and never start a fire, a *real* hot running on full song exhaust manifold will ignite diesel, usually, but that's about it.

Why do you think it takes > 17:1 CR and a warm block to ignite diesel reliably and properly...

Yea, i was a boiler tech in the Navy. We "lit off" boilers with basically a long, lit q-tip and stuck it inside with fuel and air already going.

A good trick for a new junior officer observing a boiler being lit was to throw your lit cigarette into the bucket that is full of DFM (marine diesel fuel) and watch them jump about 10 feet and watch as the diesel just extenguished the cigarette:)

My sister is a Diesel head of the VW verity, she called me one day because her friend had an old Diesel Rabbit that he ran out of fuel. I got on the phone with her friend and explained how to bleed injectors. about a week later I asked my sister if her friend got his car going. she said no, he burned up the starter and then sold the car. I said "WHAT???" she explained that he never cracked the injector lines because he was afraid of having fuel on his hot engine and having an engine fire.... SO instead he trashed his car???

Don't Fear the Diesel!!

I did some work on the car today.

I have new heat shields and was planning on replacing them, but first I wanted to put a proper torque wrench on the injectors. I had previously used a HF wrench.

I put my borrowed (calibrated) snap-on on them and they were all a good 10 ft/lbs too loose.

I will drive it like this and keep an eye and if need be, will be replacing heat shields next weekend.

BTW: The injectors were noisy for about 100 miles, now are fine and the power increase is amazing! I had to adjust the bowden cable as the car was shifting too late with the new injectors.

since you have new heat shields anyway, if your prechamber continues to leak, remove the injectors and re torque the prechambers. Thats what I did recently when I swapped injectors. I think all but one of them were tight as they should be anyway. I used a Matco torque wrench (actually made by cooper tools i think). Maybe you should return the HF wrench?

If you already installed the new return lines, it wouldn't hurt to re use them since they are only a few days old. If they leak though, remove them again and cut off a cm from each end, and replace them.

Thanks,

I'm going to watch them this week and see what happens. I need to source a socket to torque the PC if need be though, is the tool rental program still going?

EDIT: Here is a snippet from the tool rental list, which one do I need?

34) Prechamber ring wrench, pin type, 60X, 61X....Billybob............................$15

35) Prechamber ring wrench, spline type, 60X.......Billybob............................$10

36) Prechamber removal tool, slide hammer...........Billybob............................$20

37) Prechamber removal tool, screw press, 61X.....Billybob............................$25.

The night before removing Injectors spray some Penatrating Oil around the Injector Threads (keep the Oil away from the Prechamber Ring outer threads).

Got some work done on this finally!

I did a valve adjustment yesterday and figured that while I was in there I would mess with the injectors. I pulled all the injectors and cleaned the PC very well using PB blaster and a dental pick. Then, using my borrowed PC locking ring tool, I re-torqued all the locking collars back, three of five were loose. Hopefully this will take care of my leaks. I then installed new heat shields and torqued them all to 50 ft/lbs.

I noticed that cylinder 3 had heavy carbon deposits down in the PC, more on this later.

During the valve adjustment, all my exhaust valves were a little tight. (I do an adjustment every January, I drive ~10,000 miles/year) Also cylinder 3's intake valve was very tight. Could this be the reason that cylinder had the heavy carbon deposits?

Should I run some diesel purge to help clean that up? Or perhaps some "spirited" runs on the highway? Thoughts?

I now need to clean up the engine bay of fuel and check for leaks again, but the car starts and runs much better now.

where did you buy the new complete monark injectors?

Can't wait to get mine in. Bought a set from C Sean Watts :)

Oh crap! I've been adjusting my injector bodies and injectors to 70-80 ft-lbs:eek:
At first I was thinking the OP was not torquing them down enough but when no one mentioned anything about that, I checked the spec and...DOH! :wallbash:
I know the difference between the two scales and I even know that MB specs out everything metric. I was working off my memory and now I know not to trust it.
I'm lucky I didn't break or strip the injectors or the head.:o

member C sean watts

Where can i ge the pre chamber tool?
I have been having a leak on no5, so i replaced heat shield,injector, return line2x and metal lines to injectors 2x and still a small leak,so i have been looking carefully and i see a tiny bubble thru the pc ring.
Heres what my 316k mile w123 injector looked like.
By the way and fyi i took a batch of older injectors i had to my local Bosch center to have them tested and all the old made in Germany ones had even spray pattern and good pressure, a set of neat and clean looking ones that came out of a 150k mile 1985 sd were crap and low pressured,these newer Bosch injectors did not read any country of origin in them.

I am selling one.
Note: you need your own Slide Hammer or the largest free rental one from Auto Zone.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-used-parts-sale-wanted/282469-prechamber-ring-removal-tool-prechamber-puller-sale.html

There is mor pics in my ad at benzworld.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/sale-wanted-trade-giveaway/1536241-prechamber-retainer-ring-removal-tool-prechamber.html