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  #61  
Old 11-04-2010, 12:55 PM
Olivier's Avatar
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Location: Edinburgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmcphee View Post
If you are considering R&R of your IP, you will notice the ALDA sitting on top of it. May as well pop the ALDA off first and go for a spin, and see if that solves your 'runs like a Granny' problem, due to fuel starvation... caused by the ALDA.

An ALDA (seal or aneroid capsule inside) can go POP! overnight failing between runs. Next day, she runs like a dog. Happened to me.

You're cost sensitive, this is free try, before things get expensive. Makes sense to me to try it.

report back!
ALDA, anyone has a diagram of the ALDA where it is? I have asked/ searched but couldn't find any ALDA pump related info for the E300 Turbo Diesel beside few here telling me to take it out. I would if I could, but I have no idea what/ where it is.
Cheers.
__________________
E300TD year 2000. RUSTY SOLD
cost a fortune to maintain on the road
but run well on WVO
Second Merc died due to corrosion ( NOT rust) How can mercedes get away with that for so long?
Third lasted a month then went away...
Fourth now... Corroded too...
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  #62  
Old 11-04-2010, 01:51 PM
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Location: Currently in SoCal, originally from far far away
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier View Post
Hello all,
The Story:
First I run on wvo and I want to say that its not the problem but it might be related as some crud might have been dislodge in the IP.
I first put a bit of ATF in the tank to clean the injectors/ pump etc... as the old tale says.
On the same time I emptied the CAT.
Shortly after the car was not as swiftly as it use to be? It was odd...
All pointed to the cat removal, lack of back pressure etc... I was gutted ( like the cat) as I thought it would have been better for the engine.
Anyway, after awhile, I got a spare CAT reinstalled. To my surprise, the car was still the same, meaning, never like before...
I was again gutted...
It use to kick in strongly, now it was like a soft take off... Granny style...
I run the car on strait dino, expensive. Still the same as on wvo.
I tweaked the wastegate. Same .
I play with the advanve on the IP, up and down. No change, that was too odd, the car was the same no matter the fuel or the advance?
I injected high pressure air into the line backward, I swapped the lines fed and return, I changed the fuel filter, clean the pre filter, same... The tank strainer has been removed long ago , then this is not it.
Back on WVO, I decided that perhaps I needed to put some ATF strait into the IP, not in the tank, then I run about a litre of strait ATF.
The car went worse... Sob Sob... Now under load it can barely rev over 3000, while on park it can go over 5000.
After the ATF, I run 2 bottles of professional injector cleaners strait and left the pump sucking in this over night.
In the morning, it was the same.
I did a Molly purge pro line strait as well, reving up and down.
Same...
Then I decided to go for more ATF ( as it was the bother, I thought it might clean the blockage) but this time under load, I snuggle a bottle of ATF under the hood and went on the highway, on strait ATF I was getting highter rev, 4000+, but as a litre run fast under load it didn't last long and I had to stop on the merge. EEK!
Also all fuel lines are squeaky clean.
The bother is under load as the car studder and cannot keep up...
What I think might have happen is that the cleaning property of the ATF did dislodge some crud in the IP and now its blocking a hole or something.
I am going to try and do the delivery valves this week ( if its a dry weather)and perhaps by next week I'll remove the pump ( but this is daunting me a little, thanks to GSXR tho for all the info, really helpfull, see below)
Injection Pump Removal on OM606 for Bosch Service

Anyone has any idea?
I am thinking of getting 5 litre of atf and putt it in the tank, that should last enough to run the car on load for a wee while...
Reckon?
Thank you.
Olivier
Olivier,

I'll start by saying I haven't read through this whole thread, but I do see pointers on the typical fuel system issues with these cars independent of the fuel type (WVO/SVO) that are good advise. I will also state that I have some concerns about the integrity of the conversion and the number of components in the system that you have described.

Can you confirm what your basic fuel system consists of beyond just an FPHE? I may have missed it.

I did not see reference to how you are managing your fuel supply (testing for water content, particles, oxidation), which is a fairly extensive problem set to explore. I'll start with the fuel system first and see if we can fill in some blanks I'm having on understanding your system.

I noted that you have removed the fuel tank fuel strainer and thus I presume you are using either a home-grown single tank system, or a dual tank with small secondary starting/purge tank, but it's not clear to me which of these assumptions is correct.

The type of two-tank system I would speculate you might have consists of primary tank (the one that came with the car) is filled with WVO/SVO and the secondary (5-10 gallons or so in boot tank) is used for starting the engine and and purging the lines before shutting down the engine. Please confirm the type of fuel tank setup you are using.

Do you use any sort of controller, or is the switchover (assuming a small diesel tank) completely manual? From the overall thread, I'm guessing fully manual which is completely fine so long as you have gauges for temp. What is the temperature you use to determine when to switch? What is your average temperature during running?

What sort of solenoids are you using? If this is a single tank system, this won't apply course (I'm hoping this is not the case). Without sufficient heating of the fuel or a purge cycle to cleanse out the fuel lines, solenoids, FPHE, Injection Pump and injectors, there is a tendency to gum up and restrict flow.

Do you have an electric fuel pump to help push the fuel to the front of the car, or are you counting on the mechanical lift pump to pull the heavy lot of potentially low temp fuel forward?

Is there any sort of fuel outlet heating? Are the fuel lines from the tank to the engine compartment insulated? What sort of electrical or coolant heated components do you have between tank and Injection Pump that you may not have mentioned?

As for fuel management questions, I'll wait until you've responded to the above.

-bh
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  #63  
Old 11-04-2010, 02:17 PM
Olivier's Avatar
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Thank you. Here are the answers. I forgot to sat that MB was septic today about the L/P and the return valves. But I still hope
All the best.
Olivier

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
Olivier,
Can you confirm what your basic fuel system consists of beyond just an FPHE? I may have missed it.
Just a large FPHE, here is a picture of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
I did not see reference to how you are managing your fuel supply (testing for water content, particles, oxidation), which is a fairly extensive problem set to explore. I'll start with the fuel system first and see if we can fill in some blanks I'm having on understanding your system.
I only gravity filter the oil, I do once in awhile a Hot Pan Test and its all clear there. I do not de-water the oil as its dry ( HPT) and I don't have the facility to do so anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
I noted that you have removed the fuel tank fuel strainer and thus I presume you are using either a home-grown single tank system, or a dual tank with small secondary starting/purge tank, but it's not clear to me which of these assumptions is correct.
Just the original car tank, no double or spare tank

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
Do you use any sort of controller, or is the switchover (assuming a small diesel tank) completely manual? From the overall thread, I'm guessing fully manual which is completely fine so long as you have gauges for temp. What is the temperature you use to determine when to switch? What is your average temperature during running?
No gauge, but the car run at 80 degres, the FPHE is bringing the oil at this temperature. I had few bubbles right after the filter that was bugging me for a while. There were none after the FPHE where its suppose to nbe the hottest, but some right away after the filter going to the SOV? I found out that the L/P was sucking the hot oil ( mix with acetone- 0.015%- and the left over of RUG/ injector cleaners/ molly purge that I had the last week) then back into the filter that is boiling hot, this was making the mix boiled... Then to be short, its hot there once the car is at temperature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
What sort of solenoids are you using? If this is a single tank system, this won't apply course (I'm hoping this is not the case). Without sufficient heating of the fuel or a purge cycle to cleanse out the fuel lines, solenoids, FPHE, Injection Pump and injectors, there is a tendency to gum up and restrict flow.
As above, only a singlre tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
Do you have an electric fuel pump to help push the fuel to the front of the car, or are you counting on the mechanical lift pump to pull the heavy lot of potentially low temp fuel forward?
No extra pump, yes I am making the L/P working hard

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
Is there any sort of fuel outlet heating? Are the fuel lines from the tank to the engine compartment insulated? What sort of electrical or coolant heated components do you have between tank and Injection Pump that you may not have mentioned?
Not insulated, no other component either then the FPHE

As for fuel management questions, I'll wait until you've responded to the above.

-bh[/QUOTE]
Attached Thumbnails
run some aTF to clean the ip, car sluggish then not reving under load...Long story-pump.jpg  
__________________
E300TD year 2000. RUSTY SOLD
cost a fortune to maintain on the road
but run well on WVO
Second Merc died due to corrosion ( NOT rust) How can mercedes get away with that for so long?
Third lasted a month then went away...
Fourth now... Corroded too...

Last edited by Olivier; 11-04-2010 at 03:25 PM.
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  #64  
Old 11-04-2010, 03:29 PM
Alastair's Avatar
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Location: South Wales U.K.
Posts: 1,064
Olivier--

There is NO ALDA on your pump. ALDA only fitted to Non Electronic Turbo motors, and not your OM.606 Turbo Electronic pump....
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http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg

Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....
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  #65  
Old 11-04-2010, 03:53 PM
Olivier's Avatar
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Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 569
Gosh... Thank you Alastair. So many said ALDA! then I thought there was no ALDA. But more were saying ALDA!

That was confusing. Thank you for this. You are a Champ

Talking about the ALDA, where is it on my pump?

Thank you.
Olivier
__________________
E300TD year 2000. RUSTY SOLD
cost a fortune to maintain on the road
but run well on WVO
Second Merc died due to corrosion ( NOT rust) How can mercedes get away with that for so long?
Third lasted a month then went away...
Fourth now... Corroded too...
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  #66  
Old 11-04-2010, 04:46 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
I usually have some indication of where to start on a problem. This time none other than I wonder if the injectors might be partially plugged or the delivery valve seats contaminated to some extent. I really do not even like to suggest that as it may be a total time waster.

Now if the engine will not free rev to over 4k with no load I would discount the above. Warm up the engine well before that test as reving an engine with no load is not particularily good but especially when cold. Also are you getting overflow fuel at idle out of the return line from the injection pump? If not find out why. I just reread some of your posts. With no load it will do over five K so that eliminates a lot and it looks more like fuel supply issues.

The exhaust recirculation valve is totally and properly functional?. If not you can develop some weird and wonderful effects. If the car starts reasonably easy compression and rings are probably okay.

Since you feel the problem was agrivated by the attempt at cleaning also has to remain a major consideration. A quicker check than actually removing the return line from the pump might be to feel the cigar hose for pulsations if the relief valve is open. Starving for fuel would of course produce the bulk of the effects as well. There may be some junk lodged in the relief valve for example lowering the fuel pressure as well. To check for that close the return line off.

I was really very hesitant to post on this thread. On reflection it is probably only one item creating the difficulty. You have of course checked that with the fuel pedal to the floor the arm on the injection pump is being pushed to the stop.

Last edited by barry123400; 11-04-2010 at 05:05 PM.
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  #67  
Old 11-04-2010, 05:07 PM
Fredmburgess's Avatar
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Posts: 358
Hmm, Hi Olivier -
since these about half drive by wire are you working the pedal or moving the lever near the brake booster to rev up the engine? Maybe your pedal assembly is goofed up and the computer isn't "telling" the IP to go to full power. Just a thought..
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  #68  
Old 11-04-2010, 05:09 PM
babymog's Avatar
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If you have a vacuum/pressure gauge (or a RACOR gauge), put it in the fuel line before the IP, see if you are getting pressure or vacuum to the pump.
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- Jeff
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  #69  
Old 11-04-2010, 09:23 PM
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Location: Currently in SoCal, originally from far far away
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier View Post
Thank you. Here are the answers. I forgot to sat that MB was septic today about the L/P and the return valves. But I still hope. Just a large FPHE, here is a picture of it.
I don't see the picture, but even a large and well made 30 plate won't cut it by itself. Cold start issues, fuel purge at shutdown, etc. are major concerns which impact longevity. There is a reason properly built single tank systems from Germany top US $3K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier
I only gravity filter the oil, I do once in awhile a Hot Pan Test and its all clear there. I do not de-water the oil as its dry ( HPT) and I don't have the facility to do so anyway.
Gravity filtering is a good starting point, but insufficient by itself. How many tanks to you have for your setup? Do you use a proper filter or mechanical separation (centrifuge) when you transfer from the leach tank to the storage tank? How far down do you filter it (10 microns is bare minimum, 1-3 micron preferred)? To get oil through the filters, you'll need to heat it and for that purpose re-used electric heating elements from domestic appliances can save on cost to satisfy this requirement.

You can buy test strips for pennies that help determine just how dry the oil is. Spot checking with the pan test is good practice, but it needs to be for EVERY batch, not just now and again. The test strips are more accurate and are quick to use and discard for every batch. You want to be below 500 parts per million as an absolute maximum. TDI/CRD injectors tolerate even less water (200-250 range), which is quite dry and harder to achieve without a more complete fuel management system.

Gravity settling isn't effective in temperate climates unless you plan to wait for many weeks/months to get the oil "almost" clean enough to use. The smallest particles (1-20 microns in size) can stay suspended in WVO/SVO for months, only adding heat can accelerate the process. I hope you are not using a common container to both leach the particles and store finished/polished fuel. It's not practical.

[QUOTE=Olivier]
Just the original car tank, no double or spare tank
[/QOUTE]

Cold starts must be quite an adventure! You must have a good electrical system and fresh battery and glowplugs, but how long that can compensate for high viscosity fuel is anyone's guess. The biggest issue I see is a lack of a good cleansing agent of the fuel system between start/stop cycles. Gumming up injector nozzles, fuel hose interiors, filters, quite awful prospects. Even mixing diesel or kerosene into the WVO/SVO to cut the viscosity won't solve a lot of the problems this fuel setup creates.

[QUOTE=Olivier]
No gauge, but the car run at 80 degrees, the FPHE is bringing the oil at this temperature. I had few bubbles right after the filter that was bugging me for a while. There were none after the FPHE where its suppose to nbe the hottest, but some right away after the filter going to the SOV? I found out that the L/P was sucking the hot oil ( mix with acetone- 0.015%- and the left over of RUG/ injector cleaners/ molly purge that I had the last week) then back into the filter that is boiling hot, this was making the mix boiled... Then to be short, its hot there once the car is at temperature.
[/QOUTE]

Given the lack of the usual recommended bits in a WVO/SVO conversion, your response on temp regulation probably doesn't matter. The bubbles after the filter are likely a bad seal between the pickup and the filter body allowing air into the system. That you have no bubbles before the filter but have bubbles after is your hint.

[QUOTE=Olivier]
As above, only a singlre tank.
No extra pump, yes I am making the L/P working hard
Not insulated, no other component either then the FPHE
[/QOUTE]

Your current state of fuel system "conversion" is quite incomplete from the list provided. You are almost certainly not getting the fuel hot enough to ensure effective atomization. Tricks like advancing the IP timing a few degrees won't help. You really need at least 140F fuel temperature and with no second tank or or multiple stages of fuel pre-heat, you aren't going to achieve that even at full engine operating temperature. This gives cause for concern given WVO/SVO viscosity and the propensity to produce coking deposits when not sufficiently hot (there are virtually no reports of problems from "overheating" fuel, even with glow plug fuel heating, but plenty of reports of fuel that is too cold).

About the minimum for reliable operation is 145 F, though there is a growing consensus that the optimal temperature is 160-190F, with one German report indicating a temperature of 220 F to obtain parity with the viscosity of #2 diesel fuel. Without electrical pre-heaters and no separate fuel tank to start the engine and purge, you aren't just working the lift pump hard, you are working the entire system hard.

From the thread, you are stated you are pressed for funds to either go back to commercial diesel/biodiesel fuels. This would also likely prevent you from completing a high quality conversion (single tank is by FAR the hardest to do well without a professionally manufactured kit). This doesn't give a lot of latitude for suggestions. Here is my list thus far, in order of priority, do with it as you so choose:

1. Rectify the fuel leak at or near the fuel filter - there should never be bubbles in the fuel system - if you don't have a hand pumped fluid vacuum system (used for oil changes, brake fluid changes, transmission fluid changes, etc.) borrow one and use T fittings to draw fuel though the lines and get out any bubbles after you are convinced the seals on the fuel filter have integrity. Start from the fuel line at the firewall and work your way to the Injection Pump, drawing fluid with the hand pump one segment at a time. If bubbles re-appear, the main fuel filter, a hose, a fitting are indeed still leaking.

2. Check all your fuel lines from the tank to the Injection Pump. The amount of suction that lift pump is being asked to provide to move a thick column of fuel may be causing any original fuel lines, which will soften from exposure to WVO/SVO and can partially collapse under suction. Hoses are only supposed to last around 5-7 years with only diesel fuel in them, add biodiesel or the much more reactive WVO/SVO fuels and the hoses will swell in a matter of months. Your hoses will ultimately need to be replaced with SAE J30R9 or pure fluoroelastomer/fluorocarbon (SAE J30R11 equiv) hose. The "30R9" hose isn't expensive compared to Viton (fluorocarbon/fluroelastomer), a full set for the whole engine compartment is around $55.00.

3. Have the injectors pressure, flow and volume tested if the first two don't work out. One bad batch of fuel can foul the nozzles, though in your case merely warm (rather than hot) WVO, with or without excess water content, will have left it's mark on the nozzles, prechambers and over time, the piston rings. You really need to consider investing some additional thermal gain stages prior to the injection pump. The injection cleaning/testing will run about $75.00 at any honest diesel shop. Replace heat shield and seal before replacing the injectors - those seals/crush waster heat shields are one use only.

4. Get some brass fittings into which you can plumb an appropriate glow plug. You'll need some fairly good 10 gauge or thicker wire and a junction point, an inline fuse rated for the amperage of the glowplug and a fitting into which to screw the glowplug. Look around, they are cheap as are decent glow plugs - even a good used one will do. Rather than heating the fuel directly as some prefer, I go the more conservative route and heat the coolant passing into the FPHE exchanger (you have one, this is a good way to boost the heat). Depending on the glow plug, and the quality of your wiring, you can expect 15-25 degrees added to the FPHE without fear of carbon buildup on the glowplug. If you get a big enough fitting, you could perhaps fit two such glowplugs and nearly double the added heat. Just be sure to insulate the fitting or you'll lose some of the heat to the air rather than the intended coolant heating.

5. Heat the fuel coming from the tank. It doesn't need to be dramatic. If you can get the fuel to at least 80-90F it will be much easier to pull to the lift pump. You can use a wraparound fuel heating coil, electric or coolant heated (using aluminum coil around the metal fuel line near the tank with insulating sleeve, such as the black plumbers insulating sheath for copper pipes). Either way, you don't need a lot of heat here, but you do need some.

6. Buy or borrow a thermometer, IR types are the best, but anything is better than none and with a fully warm engine, see where the lines are hottest, where they are coldest and how much heat you are losing between tank, engine compartment, FPHE, fuel filter and IP. Adjust, insulate when in doubt and always, always, always test your fuel before putting it in the car!

Note that above will improve your system without adding much cost, but it's a far cry from where it needs to be if you intend to stick with a single tank system. You'll note there are a LOT of electrically heated components in those single tank systems, plenty of relays and temp sensors, a controller and good temperature regulation throughout.

As for fuel, you need to have scrumptiously clean fuel supply, consistently filtered below 10 micron and free of water or oxidation (sight and smell test are adequate if you are experienced, test strips if not) if you intend to keep the beasty on the road.

In any case, good luck. You will no doubt require it!

-BH
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  #70  
Old 11-04-2010, 09:30 PM
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1987 w124 300D
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 1,529
Does your car start up when cold, in a few crank revolutions (within about 1 second of applied cranking), and normal amount of glowing?

Or do you really have to crank long and do extra glows?

You might have really sad compression.
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Scott McPhee

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  #71  
Old 11-05-2010, 04:07 AM
Olivier's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
I usually have some indication of where to start on a problem. This time none other than I wonder if the injectors might be partially plugged or the delivery valve seats contaminated to some extent. I really do not even like to suggest that as it may be a total time waster..
I'l do the DV as soon as possible.
The injectors were cleaned and it was the same result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
Now if the engine will not free rev to over 4k with no load I would discount the above. Warm up the engine well before that test as reving an engine with no load is not particularily good but especially when cold. Also are you getting overflow fuel at idle out of the return line from the injection pump? If not find out why. I just reread some of your posts. With no load it will do over five K so that eliminates a lot and it looks more like fuel supply issues. .
THis is what I think, fuel starvation


Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
The exhaust recirculation valve is totally and properly functional?. If not you can develop some weird and wonderful effects. If the car starts reasonably easy compression and rings are probably okay..
EGR has been electronicly deleted
Car start OK, a bit rough in the morning but I am on near 100% veg and it 5c, cold... It still fire up after 4/ 5 seconds.


Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
Since you feel the problem was agrivated by the attempt at cleaning also has to remain a major consideration. A quicker check than actually removing the return line from the pump might be to feel the cigar hose for pulsations if the relief valve is open. Starving for fuel would of course produce the bulk of the effects as well. There may be some junk lodged in the relief valve for example lowering the fuel pressure as well. To check for that close the return line off. .
I will put a clamp on the hose later tofay to restrict the flow, Wunter and Alastair ( I think) suggested this could be the problem too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
I was really very hesitant to post on this thread. On reflection it is probably only one item creating the difficulty. You have of course checked that with the fuel pedal to the floor the arm on the injection pump is being pushed to the stop.
It might just be 1 and simple issue indeed, just need to find out what and where
Cheers.
Olivier
__________________
E300TD year 2000. RUSTY SOLD
cost a fortune to maintain on the road
but run well on WVO
Second Merc died due to corrosion ( NOT rust) How can mercedes get away with that for so long?
Third lasted a month then went away...
Fourth now... Corroded too...
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  #72  
Old 11-05-2010, 04:09 AM
Olivier's Avatar
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Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredmburgess View Post
Hmm, Hi Olivier -
since these about half drive by wire are you working the pedal or moving the lever near the brake booster to rev up the engine? Maybe your pedal assembly is goofed up and the computer isn't "telling" the IP to go to full power. Just a thought..
I move the throttle both by hand and with the pedal. THe only thing is that when I am on the road I use the pedal, bit hard for me to reach under the hood while driving
__________________
E300TD year 2000. RUSTY SOLD
cost a fortune to maintain on the road
but run well on WVO
Second Merc died due to corrosion ( NOT rust) How can mercedes get away with that for so long?
Third lasted a month then went away...
Fourth now... Corroded too...
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  #73  
Old 11-05-2010, 04:10 AM
Olivier's Avatar
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Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by babymog View Post
If you have a vacuum/pressure gauge (or a RACOR gauge), put it in the fuel line before the IP, see if you are getting pressure or vacuum to the pump.
Unfortunatly I don't have any of those pressure gauge.
Good idea tho.
Cheers.
__________________
E300TD year 2000. RUSTY SOLD
cost a fortune to maintain on the road
but run well on WVO
Second Merc died due to corrosion ( NOT rust) How can mercedes get away with that for so long?
Third lasted a month then went away...
Fourth now... Corroded too...
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  #74  
Old 11-05-2010, 04:20 AM
Olivier's Avatar
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Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmcphee View Post
Does your car start up when cold, in a few crank revolutions (within about 1 second of applied cranking), and normal amount of glowing?

Or do you really have to crank long and do extra glows?

You might have really sad compression.
car take a wee while but this is due to cold weather and nearly 100% veg. All OK once warm.
Cheers.
__________________
E300TD year 2000. RUSTY SOLD
cost a fortune to maintain on the road
but run well on WVO
Second Merc died due to corrosion ( NOT rust) How can mercedes get away with that for so long?
Third lasted a month then went away...
Fourth now... Corroded too...
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  #75  
Old 11-05-2010, 05:23 AM
Olivier's Avatar
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Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
I don't see the picture,
its at the bottom of the topic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
Gravity filtering is a good starting point, but insufficient by itself. How many tanks to you have for your setup? Do you use a proper filter or mechanical separation (centrifuge) when you transfer from the leach tank to the storage tank? How far down do you filter it (10 microns is bare minimum, 1-3 micron preferred)? To get oil through the filters, you'll need to heat it and for that purpose re-used electric heating elements from domestic appliances can save on cost to satisfy this requirement.
See post #55
I have 2 tank. One that I filter the oil and then transfer to the "resting" tank where the oil filtred rest for a week or 2 and then I don't use the bottom, only the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
You can buy test strips for pennies that help determine just how dry the oil is. Spot checking with the pan test is good practice, but it needs to be for EVERY batch, not just now and again. The test strips are more accurate and are quick to use and discard for every batch. You want to be below 500 parts per million as an absolute maximum. TDI/CRD injectors tolerate even less water (200-250 range), which is quite dry and harder to achieve without a more complete fuel management system.
Cheers. This is a good trick. I'll look at those. Less smellly then a smoky hopt pan in the flat... EEK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
Cold starts must be quite an adventure! You must have a good electrical system and fresh battery and glowplugs, but how long that can compensate for high viscosity fuel is anyone's guess. The biggest issue I see is a lack of a good cleansing agent of the fuel system between start/stop cycles. Gumming up injector nozzles, fuel hose interiors, filters, quite awful prospects. Even mixing diesel or kerosene into the WVO/SVO to cut the viscosity won't solve a lot of the problems this fuel setup creates.
No, cold start is OK, it take a wee while, 3/5 second, but it always fire up

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
Given the lack of the usual recommended bits in a WVO/SVO conversion, your response on temp regulation probably doesn't matter. The bubbles after the filter are likely a bad seal between the pickup and the filter body allowing air into the system. That you have no bubbles before the filter but have bubbles after is your hint.
This is what I thought, until I bypass the FPHE and there was no bubbles at all. As I explain the fuel was heated with the FPHE and then reheated by the pump. You cannot hold the filter, its that hot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
Your current state of fuel system "conversion" is quite incomplete from the list provided. You are almost certainly not getting the fuel hot enough to ensure effective atomization. Tricks like advancing the IP timing a few degrees won't help. You really need at least 140F fuel temperature and with no second tank or or multiple stages of fuel pre-heat, you aren't going to achieve that even at full engine operating temperature. This gives cause for concern given WVO/SVO viscosity and the propensity to produce coking deposits when not sufficiently hot (there are virtually no reports of problems from "overheating" fuel, even with glow plug fuel heating, but plenty of reports of fuel that is too cold).

About the minimum for reliable operation is 145 F, though there is a growing consensus that the optimal temperature is 160-190F, with one German report indicating a temperature of 220 F to obtain parity with the viscosity of #2 diesel fuel. Without electrical pre-heaters and no separate fuel tank to start the engine and purge, you aren't just working the lift pump hard, you are working the entire system hard.
The FPHE raise the temperature of the fuel at 80c, the engine temperature, this is more then 170 F. And its again re-heated by the heat of the pump. But even if the FPHE doesn't raise the fuel at engine temterature the L/p will at the end.
I looked everywhere, putting extra washers and Orings swapp etc... I thought it was at the filter too, even the filter holder. Nope, it was the mix that was heated to much and was bubbling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
2. Check all your fuel lines from the tank to the Injection Pump. The amount of suction that lift pump is being asked to provide to move a thick column of fuel may be causing any original fuel lines, which will soften from exposure to WVO/SVO and can partially collapse under suction. Hoses are only supposed to last around 5-7 years with only diesel fuel in them, add biodiesel or the much more reactive WVO/SVO fuels and the hoses will swell in a matter of months. Your hoses will ultimately need to be replaced with SAE J30R9 or pure fluoroelastomer/fluorocarbon (SAE J30R11 equiv) hose. The "30R9" hose isn't expensive compared to Viton (fluorocarbon/fluroelastomer), a full set for the whole engine compartment is around $55.00.
All lines are new except the one from the tank to the hard line under the car, I will have a look at it as it might be soft by now... Good point, they do cave in if too soft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
3. Have the injectors pressure, flow and volume tested if the first two don't work out. One bad batch of fuel can foul the nozzles, though in your case merely warm (rather than hot) WVO, with or without excess water content, will have left it's mark on the nozzles, prechambers and over time, the piston rings. You really need to consider investing some additional thermal gain stages prior to the injection pump. The injection cleaning/testing will run about $75.00 at any honest diesel shop. Replace heat shield and seal before replacing the injectors - those seals/crush waster heat shields are one use only.
Injectors were checked 3 weeks ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
4. Get some brass fittings into which you can plumb an appropriate glow plug. You'll need some fairly good 10 gauge or thicker wire and a junction point, an inline fuse rated for the amperage of the glowplug and a fitting into which to screw the glowplug. Look around, they are cheap as are decent glow plugs - even a good used one will do. Rather than heating the fuel directly as some prefer, I go the more conservative route and heat the coolant passing into the FPHE exchanger (you have one, this is a good way to boost the heat). Depending on the glow plug, and the quality of your wiring, you can expect 15-25 degrees added to the FPHE without fear of carbon buildup on the glowplug. If you get a big enough fitting, you could perhaps fit two such glowplugs and nearly double the added heat. Just be sure to insulate the fitting or you'll lose some of the heat to the air rather than the intended coolant heating.
I had a HE with glow plugs, great device but I sold it as I needed some money and also I thought ( ) it was no longer needed... I see if I can find a picture of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
5. Heat the fuel coming from the tank. It doesn't need to be dramatic. If you can get the fuel to at least 80-90F it will be much easier to pull to the lift pump. You can use a wraparound fuel heating coil, electric or coolant heated (using aluminum coil around the metal fuel line near the tank with insulating sleeve, such as the black plumbers insulating sheath for copper pipes). Either way, you don't need a lot of heat here, but you do need some.
I know a bit of heat would be better but at the moment its not a priority, also the return goes back into the tank "plenium"(spelling?) next to the feeding line, therefore the fuel is heated rapidely there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
6. Buy or borrow a thermometer, IR types are the best, but anything is better than none and with a fully warm engine, see where the lines are hottest, where they are coldest and how much heat you are losing between tank, engine compartment, FPHE, fuel filter and IP. Adjust, insulate when in doubt and always, always, always test your fuel before putting it in the car!
I'll look at this. But first I need to see what is wrong with the IP and fuel suplly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzhacker View Post
Note that above will improve your system without adding much cost, but it's a far cry from where it needs to be if you intend to stick with a single tank system. You'll note there are a LOT of electrically heated components in those single tank systems, plenty of relays and temp sensors, a controller and good temperature regulation throughout.

As for fuel, you need to have scrumptiously clean fuel supply, consistently filtered below 10 micron and free of water or oxidation (sight and smell test are adequate if you are experienced, test strips if not) if you intend to keep the beasty on the road.

In any case, good luck. You will no doubt require it!

-BH
Fuel is clean and filtred to 1 micron.
Thank you BH

All the best.
Olivier
__________________
E300TD year 2000. RUSTY SOLD
cost a fortune to maintain on the road
but run well on WVO
Second Merc died due to corrosion ( NOT rust) How can mercedes get away with that for so long?
Third lasted a month then went away...
Fourth now... Corroded too...
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