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  #16  
Old 12-10-2010, 04:25 PM
winmutt's Avatar
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That is a very interesting concoction you have there on the bench. What is a manometer exactly? What are you calling the return valves? Are you referring to the delivery valves? How did you adjust them?

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  #17  
Old 12-10-2010, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subetealabici View Post
I also think that heating the oil before enters the IP has little or no difference in the weather here in Portland Or, once the oil enters the engine it will go to any temperature that the IP or the engine is at due to the fact that most the part and pipes are cold during the start.
I think you need to go check out some of the established knowledge on the reputable WVO forums. What you are saying is absolutely not correct and suggests you lack a basic grounding in what you're trying to do.

What you suggest would work to some extent (still not best practice, however) if you only operated your car in daylight hours in desert conditions.

You absolutely need to raise the temperature of your WVO prior to the IP. And you need to raise it even further before it hits the injectors. (It needs to be done in two stages because the optimal injection temp for the oil will degrade seals inside the IP).

The overriding problem with WVO use is not dealing with flow or combustion quality as you seem to be seeing it, but with ensuring you (a) have well-filtered and water-free WVO that has come from a suitable source, and (b) that you heat this good quality oil to sufficient temps to ensure it's at a viscosity similar to diesel when it goes through the injector.

I do applaud your creativity and drive in putting that rig together. But you need to find a better-quality source of info on WVO. The things you are saying were discredited five years ago in the mainstream WVO community.
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2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
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  #18  
Old 12-10-2010, 04:58 PM
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Hmm.....

The Temperature Of The Oil will be at Whatever Temperature the Cylinder-Head, and therefore the Injectors, is at!

No amount of heating prior to the IP(OR after for that matter) is gonna change That!

The Flow is TOO SMALL. --Around 50CCM per 1000 cylinder firing strokes--AT FULL LOAD.

The Specific Heat capacity of VO is only Half That of Water.
Simple Physics.

There is SO much Mis-Information on VO forums, whats said there cannot be used as fact!
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-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

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  #19  
Old 12-10-2010, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair View Post
Hmm.....

The Temperature Of The Oil will be at Whatever Temperature the Cylinder-Head, and therefore the Injectors, is at!

No amount of heating prior to the IP(OR after for that matter) is gonna change That!

The Flow is TOO SMALL. --Around 50CCM per 1000 cylinder firing strokes--AT FULL LOAD.

The Specific Heat capacity of VO is only Half That of Water.
Simple Physics.

There is SO much Mis-Information on VO forums, whats said there cannot be used as fact!
Ding ding ding ding ding! +1
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  #20  
Old 12-10-2010, 07:38 PM
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Hi
A manometer is a pressure gauge, and it is connected in the fuel line, the delivery or return valves are the ones on top of the pump, they increase the pressure clockwise, you can only turn then 15* or something like that, I have and idea about how the whole deal works inside the pump with the governors, the centrifugal thing and the other parts but I will need to get a book or a Bosch manual if I want to get very precise about it.

The WVO temperature is a very long discussion for many people, I think since Lord Kelvin times is very clear how it works, the viscosity of the oil changes with temperature a lot, lard is dangerous in any way or temperature for the engine, but just warming the oil doesn't have any effect in the start with the cold engine, now it is running with a mix of 70% oil and 30% dynodiesel, and since the tune up just works perfect with no smoke at all, even wen starts.
I think that there is a lot of wrong concepts and mystification about the WVO, the centrifuge filter seems to be very good about taking the water, lard, and many other particles from the oil, it has some troubles with lighter stuff, in the other hand is very fast and pretty much trouble free.
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  #21  
Old 12-12-2010, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair View Post
Hmm.....

The Temperature Of The Oil will be at Whatever Temperature the Cylinder-Head, and therefore the Injectors, is at!

No amount of heating prior to the IP(OR after for that matter) is gonna change That!
I beg to differ. You want to tell me that heated VO going through an injector line will be cooled by the injector, to the head temp, prior to injection?

Sorry I am not seeing that....
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2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
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  #22  
Old 12-12-2010, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Zacharias View Post
I beg to differ. You want to tell me that heated VO going through an injector line will be cooled by the injector, to the head temp, prior to injection?

.

Of course....

Stands to reason. Put some boiling water into a metal vessel, whose metal mass is large, in comparison with water volume (like an injector attached to a huge iron/ally heatsink filled with cold water, thats the head)--and the water will cool, VERY quickly.

Simple thermodynamics.

Oil has HALF the latent heat capacity of water exasibating the issue. (So you would need Twice the amount of oil to heat up a specific volume of metal a specific number of degrees in comparison to water)

Try it yourself--Dont go believng a voice behind a keyboard--

With an old head and injector. Arrange a blow-lamp to heat the injector line, (Which will get infinately hotter than any silly elect powered 'line-heater') and pump fuel through the injector with a pop-tester.

--Not Forgetting a Pop tester pumps MUCH more fuel per stroke than in a real working engine

Measure the temp of fuel emitted from injector...

I did this test well over 15 years ago. There was little heat left in the fuel actually Injected.

Why is it, Twin Tank Conversions -on the whole- Work reliably....

While Single tank Conversions--Can and do--Cause Ring-Gumming and other issues??

Because the Cyl. Head AND the Injector are HOT before veggy hits them, and therefore a better atomisation and combustion occur, as the fuel is Heated whilst In the hot Injector!
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W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....
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  #23  
Old 12-12-2010, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharias View Post
I beg to differ. You want to tell me that heated VO going through an injector line will be cooled by the injector, to the head temp, prior to injection?

Sorry I am not seeing that....
Yes.
It should be very easy to see what the temp of the Fuel that goes through the Injector really is.

Just get some Fuel Return Hose and hook it up to an Injector and leave the other end open and direct the stream of return Fuel over your temp Probe.

Because the Fuel coming out of the Injector has been all the way through the compete injector with the exception of what was Injected it has had a chance to absorb the heat inside of the Injector you should get a reasonable idea of the temp of the return Fuel.
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  #24  
Old 12-12-2010, 02:43 PM
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Hi

I think that is very clear about the temperature, and there are many experiments you can run to test it out in your kitchen.

I totally agree that a double tank conversion is the best way, in my case I drive about 5 miles to go work, I put a tarp in front of the radiator, and by the time I getting to work the car is at working temperature, thats like 10 minutes, so I wouldn't be practical for me at this point to have a double tank system, or leave the car idling 5 minutes for a 10 minutes drive.
There are other things to consider, in this case is a Mercedes 240D with a inline IP, there are almost no rubber gaskets or seals, it has a pre-combustion chamber, this is very different from a WV TDI or a common rail, or other injection system that could be more sensitive to the fuel type. That is also I'm trying with the pump in the bench, seeing different fuel spray performances.
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  #25  
Old 12-13-2010, 02:07 AM
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
That is a very interesting concoction you have there on the bench. What is a manometer exactly? What are you calling the return valves? Are you referring to the delivery valves? How did you adjust them?
manometer
http://www.google.com/search?q=manometer&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=


A manometer could also be referring to a pressure measuring instrument, usually limited to measuring pressures near to atmospheric. The term manometer is often used to refer specifically to liquid column hydrostatic instruments.

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