diesel facts and info for speech - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tfernandez · #16 12-03-2010, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daman858

In Europe, the majority of new cars sold are diesel powered including some very high end Mercedes, BMW and Audi cars. The biggest selling car in Europe in 2009 was the Volkswagen Golf with a diesel engine with over 500,000 units sold. The new VW turbo direct injection engines are one of the most fuel efficient and cleanest engines in the world.

VW's clean diesel in the 2009 Jetta reduced emissions by 90% with fuel economy in the mid 40mpg range.

VW has also produced a diesel hybrid concept car with a three cylinder diesel and electric engine that gives good performance with fuel economy in the 70mpg range!

Go to a Mercedes dealer and look at the window sticker on the new diesel and compare the fuel economy and emissions on the sticker to the gas engine model. Same with a VW dealer...you'll be amazed!

that 90 percent is crazy! had no clue our engines were getting that good.

75Sv1 · #17 12-03-2010, 07:30 AM

Some of a good argument is to acknowlege counter points. Then minimize them, or refute them. Part of the reason Europe has more diesels is two fold. One is their emmisions is more based on CO2 output, and the US is on NOx. Diesels do better on CO2 output. The other is, that diesels generally get 30% better fuel milage. In the US even at $3/gal., we have cheap fuel. I think Europe is paying $6-$8/gal. So, that 30% really adds up.
One point brought up, is the reduction of emmisions. Deisel have come a long way in even the past 10 years. I would say they are very close to gasoline engines. Another aspect, would be torque vs HP. Generally, deisels have very high torque for the amount of hp. I think if you look at different engines, you will find gas engines are generally even as for given torque and hp. I would say a diesel has about 20% to 40% more torque for given hp.
You would have to do an explaination of HP and torque. Basically, torque is a rotations force. HP is work, or the force delivered over an amount of time. So, HP is torque at a certain RPM. Generally, desiels make their torque at lower RPMs.
There have been some gasoline cars that got excellent mpg. I think some of the variants of the Geo Metro were getting about 60 mpg. It was a very bare bones car though. I think that is why you see a lot of luxuary cars and trucks with diesels. The extra torque helps with the extra weight. I am not saying diesels are not suited for smaller cars.
Also, you might look at what engine would deliver the best at a constant RPM. Basically, as a generator. With the hype of hybrids, gasoline engines you very well at a constant RPM, such as highway speeds.
Also, you need to look at different advanced technolgy. I think the ones where the engine stops if idles for more than a minute, then uses the starter to move the vehicle and start it. I think GM had one on the market.
Also, look at the Gasodiesel or autodiesel. It is basically a diesel engine that runs on gasoline. The savings are that the equipment to meet emmisions is very expensive for a diesel. I should be less for the autodiesel.
I'd also look at natural gas, propane, CNG (compressed natural gas), as some diesel engines are converted to use these. The US is discovering vast fields of natural gas in the continental US.
Tom

vstech · #18 12-03-2010, 09:50 AM

another point to be made is all gasoline cars produce deadly CO or carbon monoxide, and home deaths could be avoided if a diesel car was used.
plus the stink from the diesel would force them to open their garage doors!

also point out the biodiesel simplicity of running diesel vehicles from 100% renewable fuel stock. without all the fermenting and energy wasting processes of converting corn into ethanol for E85. 100%Biodiesel is a WAAAAAY lower carbon creation fuel that the heavily fermented (HEATED WITH NATURAL GAS/COAL) corn...

Bio300TDTdriver · #19 12-03-2010, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselPaul

My friend just made a speech to his speech class on why Toyota Priuses are garbage and he cited diesel as a better alternative, as he is aware of the greatness that is my garage.

No batteries that wear out every couple years.

Where did he get that "fact"?

75Sv1 · #20 12-03-2010, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

another point to be made is all gasoline cars produce deadly CO or carbon monoxide, and home deaths could be avoided if a diesel car was used.
plus the stink from the diesel would force them to open their garage doors!

also point out the biodiesel simplicity of running diesel vehicles from 100% renewable fuel stock. without all the fermenting and energy wasting processes of converting corn into ethanol for E85. 100%Biodiesel is a WAAAAAY lower carbon creation fuel that the heavily fermented (HEATED WITH NATURAL GAS/COAL) corn...

The bio fuels is a sticky subject. I do think biodiesel is a bit better, and possibly more developed. There are always reports of the next big break through, 6 months way. There is also the synth-fuel option. I think one of the OPEC nations was going to refine a synth-diesel from propane or natural gas. You would have to evaluate, the cost and to take into account all the subsidies. The next big break through for E85 or such is at the cellulistic stock, or instead of the corn itself, they will use the corn stalk or silage. Also, wood chips etc. Then there is the enviromental factor with growing corn. It is fairly water intesive compared to other crops. Then again, it uses a lot of fertilizer, some of wich runs off into streams, rivers and other water ways. This puts a lot of nitrogen into the water. So, you have problems with alge and other plant growths. That can kill off fish etc.
Another angle is the fuel milage. I don't think there is much if any peninlty with biodiesel. Some see an increase. I think there is a huge decrease in milage with E85, at least from what I have read and breifly experienced.
I think if it was me, I try to find some facts as to cost to produce, subsidies, future possiblities (algea for diesel vs cellulose for E85), milage and enviromental impact. Also with cellulose, some of that is done with bacteria. Some concerns are a super bacteria getting loose.
Tom

Fulcrum525 · #21 12-03-2010, 11:22 AM

Don't forget some of the little reasons....

You spend less actual time at the pumps because of the higher flow rates on most diesel pumps.

Once you get it started that engine can run without electricity so if your alternator or battery goes while driving you can just keep going until nightfall.

Long ranges (I'll drive to JFK and back on half a tank without any concern)

Lack of spark plugs increases reliability by decreasing the number of things that can go wrong. (Even a diesel with bad glow plugs can be started with some effort)

Beastie · #22 12-03-2010, 11:33 AM

Not wanting to start a debate on Bio/WVO/Straight Diesel but without major mods Diesel engines can run on a wider variety of fuels ( okay some better than others and some seem to shorten the life of some engine components) depending on what is available.

Jim Anderson · #23 12-03-2010, 12:37 PM

Nobody ever died from diesel exhaust fumes.

winmutt · #24 12-03-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfernandez

I'm writing a persuasive speech on why people should drive diesel cars rather than gasoline. Any factual information you fine folks could contribute would be a huge help. if it comes with an internet source it's an even greater help. I'm looking for info. about better fuel efficiency, emissions, and any other reasons that would be a benefit over gas. thank you for any help you can offer

Youll have to find the link but Bush's EPA said that if 50% of passenger cars were diesel we'd no longer have to import oil.

vstech · #25 12-03-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Anderson

Nobody ever died from diesel exhaust fumes.

covered in post 18

SirNik84 · #26 12-03-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Anderson

Nobody ever died from diesel exhaust fumes.

Back during WWII the Germans call our (gasoline powered) tanks Ronsons because the light up ever time. In contrast the German tanks were extremely hard to kill. If you watch the opening scene to Patton (the part after the American flag speech) They talk about the Diesel fuel being the reason why the tanks were so hard to kill...

So from a safety stand point I like the thought that my fuel is more stable and harder to ignite.

Fulcrum525 · #27 12-03-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirNik84

Back during WWII the Germans call our (gasoline powered) tanks Ronsons because the light up ever time. In contrast the German tanks were extremely hard to kill. If you watch the opening scene to Patton (the part after the American flag speech) They talk about the Diesel fuel being the reason why the tanks were so hard to kill...

So from a safety stand point I like the thought that my fuel is more stable and harder to ignite.

Right, almost forgot about that one. Check out this video made by a forum member.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LeRSPuA5Z4

75Sv1 · #28 12-03-2010, 02:37 PM

One thing to check on is transporting of fuels. I don't think ethanol is transportable through pipelines. There might also be a problem with the ULSD deisel. There might be some transportation problems with biodeisel too. I think ethanol is the worst. The problem with ULSD and biodiesel is that the oil ine pipes are a bit dirty. The ULSD and biodiesel pick up the dirt. So, they are not pure enough. There might have been advancements since I read that 5-6 years ago.
Tom