I installed a used recent rebuild 617 turbo with 4 speed manual into an '84 300TDT.
This engine sat not running for 1.5 years minimum prior to this.

This engine smokes (blue) too much with warm compression readings of:
1- 400
2- 400
3- 420 (fuel ignited during this test)
4- 390
5- 380
this supports recent rebuild story of seller .... at least rings.
can compression rings be good but oil rings be stuck??

Also does not idle while stone cold without foot on accelerator until it begins to warm up, then searches, when fully warm idles normally

This engine when revved up rpm does not drop to idle normally with release of accelerator, rpms "float" down to normal idle very slowly while stationary in neutral. From 2500 takes maybe 6 or 7 seconds to drop to 1000.

While cruising in gear its even worse, momentum of vehicle seems to sustain rpm even more, making the usual use of compression to slow vehicle impossible possibly dangerous.

Adjust governor damper out half a turn does not help ...
Adjust governor damper in half a turn initiates loping, worsens searching.

Assuming something is stuck or sticky in IP, (per comment of Oregon Fuel Injection guy) are there any oil additives that may "unstuck" it.... ? (Why would he tell me)

Gus at Pacific says "gee I don't know what could cause that" .... Poll: who believes that? He seems like a nice man, however he is a Swiss guy who has spent his life working on these IP pumps.....

Am I getting cynical?

Thanks in advance.

Blue is oil, I'd check the likely sources, from either the valve train etc

__________________
hum.....
1987 300TD 311,000M Stolen. Presumed destroyed

Pop the Linkage off of the Fuel Injection Pump Throttle Arm and test it. If the problem goes away it is a problem with the Linkage sticking.

You might also try a stronger Return Spring on the Linkage.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

forgot to add to the original post: linkage returns easily and immediately to idle position
thanks

Engine shuts off properly?

__________________
http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg
1995 E420 Schwarz
1995 E300 Weiss
#1987 300D Sturmmachine
#1991 300D Nearly Perfect
#1994 E320 Cabriolet
#1995 E320 Touring
#1985 300D Sedan
OBK #42

I think I'd put a couple can's of diesel purge through the engine, and see if that loosens the pump up. It will clean out the gunk that might have built up in the pump and injectors.

Are you in Oregon?

__________________

Check the Injection Timing.--Most probable....
--Retarded timing will smoke bluish/white/greyish

Check to see (depending on type) that the Vac Pump isnt pumping oil into air-cleaner--This happens on those fitted with the Vac pump vent that goes to air-filter, when the vac-pump diaphragm fails.

Could have worn/damaged/split valve-guide-seals....

__________________
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg

Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

Blue smoke could also be bad turbo seals.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Are you in Oregon?[/QUOTE]

Near San Francisco

Its a newly rebuilt head, new seals.

I'll phone Bosch tomorrow, they have techs available to chat with about their products...
Thanks

HAHA,
They generally give you an explanation that involves a lot of $$$ !

Good Luck !!
Please report back to us on what they tell you.

__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving

If it is the Fuel Injection Pump and a shop takes it apart they may find a broken spring or something.
However, if the Injection Pump is just run on a test stand the problem may not show up because the Rotation of the test stand is not controld by the Fuel Injection Pump.

Wild speculation as to what else could cause that condition.

The ALDA has an effect on the Fuel amount. Perhaps the ALDA is retracting slowly when there is no Boost Pressure to it. If it did this would delay the return of the rack to the non-boost fuel setting.
Disconnect the Boost Pressure line at the ALDA and see if that changes anything.

I do not know if this will harm the ALDA or not; while the Boost Pressure line is off hook up a Hose where the Boost Pressure line went and use it to apply some Vacuum. I believe the Vacuum will retract the ALDA away from the Rack and hold it there until the Vacuum is relieved. That would take the ALDA out of the picture as far as making contact with the Rack.

The other thing; is it possible for the Vacuum Shutoff Valve to drag on the Rack and keep it from moving properly?
Old stiff Diaphragm, Oil trapped inside due to a tiny hole in the Diaphrabm or ???

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

bosch sez:
injection timing device advances timing at higher rpm, can deliver too much fuel causing the rpm problem if it has become defective.

IP pumps do not last forever, can simply need rebuild there is no way around it if certain seals are worn permitting fuel to persist to be delivered while rack is in idle position.

Oh well. I paid 1K for this engine, another K, if that results in a strong 617 turbo that is still fine.

Metric Motors short blocks are $4200. I'm already 8400 worth of grief into this one.....

Hmm....

Injection Timing Device on Your engine will have NO Bearing whatsoever as to the Quantity Of Fuel Injected.
--Only WHEN its injected.....

(I'm guessing your bosch tech was thinking EP-VE type pump, and NOT PES 5MW/M when he gave you his diagnosis, as the EP-VE Rotary does have an Internal Timing-Device, that can and does stick--Your Pump has no such device--Its In The Engine)

Your Timing Device is part of the chain Sprocket that Drives the pump--a collection of weights and springs--very reliable part....

If the Rack is in Idle position then it WILL idle. There are no seals that can wear that would cause your symptoms on the PES 5MW/M pump.

--Something is Causing the Rack to Stick....Prolly iffy stop-diaphragm or summit in the Governor--IF its an Injection pump fault, which I suspect not.....

OR you are getting Oil into the engine (Turbo maybe??) which is adding to the fuelling and keeping it running higher than idle....

One thing to check/replace would be the Lift-Pump. This Can in certain cases, leak engine oil Into the fuel--which could be giving your symptoms....

__________________
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg

Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

Well I would not hurry with this one. See what others post first.

If you feel the pump is going to be changed or rebuilt. Try soaking it with laquer thinners internally for a couple of hours. You will have nothing to lose at that point. It might be sludged up a little from the past internally.

The thinner is very potent at breaking down sludge and there are no other parts in that model pump that should be affected. I would not flow the thinners through the fuel filters either when loading the pump. Pump a lot of fuel through the pump after the soak with the primer pump to send all the junk back into the tank through the return line.

If that or something else has not cured the issue a used pump picked right is a much cheaper alternative. The odds are a used pump picked well being just fine. I personally discount the pump shops suggestion the mechanical advance wheel is possibly the issue here or any probability of it being so.