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PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/)
-   Diesel Discussion (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/)
-   -   OM617 (non turbo) cam profile specs, piston height specs etc (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/290268-om617-non-turbo-cam-profile-specs-piston-height-specs-etc.html)

Stretch 12-15-2010 06:48 AM
OM617 (non turbo) cam profile specs, piston height specs etc
 
2 Attachment(s)
G'day Folks,

What with these freezing short days and all (in the Northern hemisphere) I've been messing about making gucci drawings of my new camshaft profile on my 1981 OM617.

I've made some measurements and using a CAD package I've worked out the lift of the cam at 10 degree intervals. I've attached my results in case they are of use to others - may be there is a cam expert out there?

Anyway here's the question - does anyone have an official source for this sort of information?

I'd like to check my measurements.

I've got the latest code 11 cam (successor of the 00 - but probably has the same shape).

layback40 12-15-2010 07:05 AM
Interesting piece of work Army.
It doesnt look quite right though.
You will see the sides of the lobe look as though they are approaching being slightly concave. There should be slightly more metal in those regions. The cam that you have drawn would be prone to valve bounce.

I have no idea where you would get the original spec on the cam.

Stretch 12-15-2010 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 (Post 2609610)
Interesting piece of work Army.
It doesnt look quite right though.
You will see the sides of the lobe look as though they are approaching being slightly concave. There should be slightly more metal in those regions. The cam that you have drawn would be prone to valve bounce.

I have no idea where you would get the original spec on the cam.
Thanks for the response it is a bit rough - I know - I based my drawing on two circles and two tangential lines... the tangential lines start and stop at the same height but their positions are done by eye. So I know it isn't accurate enough.

If I still had the kit I'd use a finely pulsed tachometer and a LVDT to make a time capture measurement of the cam's surface at very slow rotations. But I don't work at a university anymore...

Stretch 12-19-2010 01:52 PM
Update
 
1 Attachment(s)
I'm going to have to 'do it the old fashioned' way. I'm going to measure the lift from the camshaft with a DTI...

I have found some good graphing software that can interpolate between the measured points for me. I've attached the result set showing the data in the PDF file in my first post.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1292784727

Strange - I've just noticed that the X-axis values have been decimated - Oh well I'm gonna have to check on that...

panZZer 12-19-2010 05:28 PM
I was thinking about this yesterday--What if people made a performance cams for the benz like they probably do for the cummins.

4x4_Welder 12-19-2010 10:35 PM
I have had good luck with Delta Camshaft of Tacoma, WA with gasser cams, I'm actually running one of their regrinds in my van right now. It might be worthwhile to contact them and see what they could do with an OM617 cam.

Stretch 12-20-2010 03:38 AM
I was thinking last night that there is also a bit of a strange relationship between the cam and the cam follower - it slides all over the place. So I'm gonna see if I can measure the movement at the valve as well.

At the moment it is so cold (and humid) here I can't paint my engine bay so I may as well fill in my time with a bit of research.

The operational clearance - the movement of pistons and valves - in these engines is somewhat scary compared with petrol engines.

DeliveryValve 12-20-2010 01:36 PM
Colt Cams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by panZZer (Post 2612582)
I was thinking about this yesterday--What if people made a performance cams for the benz like they probably do for the cummins.
At the beginning of this year I got in contact with Geoff Bardal at Colt Cams in Aldergrove, British Columbia Canada. I was led to his company through the Volkswagen TDI circle in which he makes a performance TDI profile that people have had good reviews on. He also has done thousands of profiles on various gas and diesel applications and has also done extensive work on the Cummins 5.9L diesel.

I called him to price out a profile for my own TDI. While on the phone, I asked him about a performance profile for the OM617.95x and said he has one that he did back in the 1990’s in which his customer was happy. He has not done one recently, but is experienced in the OM61x since has been to regrind or repaired several to factory specs.

After a little discussion of varying applications the 617 is being used in our circle, he thinks there is a lot of capacity to get more performance out of the 617 cam, even more so then his earlier profile.

He is very interested in the working with 617 folks to create custom grind for each custom use. He offered me for about $340 shipped, a custom grind that he will work with me to get it right, provided that I get him a cam to regrind. I think this a great idea but unfortunately for my engine, I still want to make other mods i.e. different turbo and IP mod.

However, I do think it is important to get some R&D in and if somebody who is further along then I am or is looking to improve on the stock setup, should contact him or even Delta and get a project going. The more profiles available, the better for all of us.


http://www.coltcams.com/


Colt Cams Inc.
2325 264th street
Aldergrove BC V4W 2L5
Canada


Phone: 604-856-3571
Fax: 604-856-3572





.

Stretch 12-20-2010 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryValve (Post 2613171)
At the beginning of this your I got in contact with Geoff Bardal at Colt Cams in Aldergrove, British Columbia Canada. I was led to his company through the Volkswagen TDI circle in which he makes a performance TDI profile that people have had good reviews on. He also has done thousands of profiles on various gas and diesel applications and has also done extensive work on the Cummins 5.9L diesel.

I called him to price out a profile for my own TDI. While on the phone, I asked him about a performance profile for the OM617.95x and said he has one that he did back in the 90’s in which his customer was happy. He has not done one recently, but is experienced in the OM61x since has been to regrind or repaired several to factory specs.

After a little discussion of varying applications the 617 is being used in our circle, he thinks there is a lot of capacity to get more performance out of the 617 cam, even more so then his earlier profile.

He is very interested in the working with 617 folks to create custom grind for each custom use. He offered me for about $340 shipped, a custom grind that he will work with me to get it right, provided that I get him a cam to regrind. I think this a great idea but unfortunately for my engine, I still want to make other mods i.e. different turbo and IP mod.

However, I do think it is important to get some R&D in and if somebody who is further along then I am or is looking to improve on the stock setup, should contact him or even Delta and get a project going. The more profiles available, the better for all of us.


http://www.coltcams.com/


Colt Cams Inc.
2325 264th street
Aldergrove BC V4W 2L5
Canada


Phone: 604-856-3571
Fax: 604-856-3572





.
Hey DeliveryValve - I'm happy to help out with making measurements if I can whilst my engine is still in bits - in fact that's kind of what I'm up to at the moment. I'm just trying to understand my OM617 in a more in-depth way. I'm not at the stage where I want to actually alter anything just yet. That's why I didn't post on the performance forum. But who knows in the future I may feel differently.

DeliveryValve 12-20-2010 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army (Post 2613185)
Hey DeliveryValve - I'm happy to help out with making measurements if I can whilst my engine is still in bits - in fact that's kind of what I'm up to at the moment. I'm just trying to understand my OM617 in a more in-depth way. I'm not at the stage where I want to actually alter anything just yet. That's why I didn't post on the performance forum. But who knows in the future I may feel differently.
Army, that's probably helpful if someone does their own grinding. But for companies like Colt or Delta, they would rather have the cam on hand and profile it themselves. In fact Geoff at Colt Cams told me he has the stock 617 profiles already in his database getting it from doing work on them in the 1980s. The performance thing is really a matter of grinding the cam and trying it out with the current setup of a particular engine, then reworking it if necessary. Hence his willingness to work out a grind that would be suitable.


.

Stretch 12-20-2010 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryValve (Post 2613251)
Army, that's probably helpful if someone does their own grinding. But for companies like Colt or Delta, they would rather have the cam on hand and profile it themselves. In fact Geoff at Colt Cams told me he has the stock 617 profiles already in his database getting it from doing work on them in the 1980s. The performance thing is really a matter of grinding the cam and trying it out with the current setup of a particular engine, then reworking it if necessary. Hence his willingness to work out a grind that would be suitable.


.
Ah ha I see - but just suppose he'd be willing to share his database data...

ConnClark 12-20-2010 03:56 PM
While we are on the subject I was wondering if anybody has looked into titanium valves? Ditching some valve inertia should help power a tad and reduce stresses and wear on the rest of the valve train. I found some places that will do it but never bothered to get a quote.

DeliveryValve 12-20-2010 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army (Post 2613270)
Ah ha I see - but just suppose he'd be willing to share his database data...
I doubt it, these cam companies like to keep everything secret. You know... they would like to make money...





Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnClark (Post 2613302)
While we are on the subject I was wondering if anybody has looked into titanium valves? Ditching some valve inertia should help power a tad and reduce stresses and wear on the rest of the valve train. I found some places that will do it but never bothered to get a quote.
Well that's a thought. I like to hear if someone have done this too!



.

panZZer 12-20-2010 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryValve (Post 2613171)
At the beginning of this year I got in contact with Geoff Bardal at Colt Cams in Aldergrove, British Columbia Canada. I was led to his company through the Volkswagen TDI circle in which he makes a performance TDI profile that people have had good reviews on. He also has done thousands of profiles on various gas and diesel applications and has also done extensive work on the Cummins 5.9L diesel.

I called him to price out a profile for my own TDI. While on the phone, I asked him about a performance profile for the OM617.95x and said he has one that he did back in the 1990’s in which his customer was happy. He has not done one recently, but is experienced in the OM61x since has been to regrind or repaired several to factory specs.

After a little discussion of varying applications the 617 is being used in our circle, he thinks there is a lot of capacity to get more performance out of the 617 cam, even more so then his earlier profile.

He is very interested in the working with 617 folks to create custom grind for each custom use. He offered me for about $340 shipped, a custom grind that he will work with me to get it right, provided that I get him a cam to regrind. I think this a great idea but unfortunately for my engine, I still want to make other mods i.e. different turbo and IP mod.

However, I do think it is important to get some R&D in and if somebody who is further along then I am or is looking to improve on the stock setup, should contact him or even Delta and get a project going. The more profiles available, the better for all of us.


http://www.coltcams.com/


Colt Cams Inc.
2325 264th street
Aldergrove BC V4W 2L5
Canada


Phone: 604-856-3571
Fax: 604-856-3572





.
Why oh Why hasn't this ever come up before:cool:

panZZer 12-20-2010 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryValve (Post 2613171)
At the beginning of this year I got in contact with Geoff Bardal at Colt Cams in Aldergrove, British Columbia Canada. I was led to his company through the Volkswagen TDI circle in which he makes a performance TDI profile that people have had good reviews on. He also has done thousands of profiles on various gas and diesel applications and has also done extensive work on the Cummins 5.9L diesel.

I called him to price out a profile for my own TDI. While on the phone, I asked him about a performance profile for the OM617.95x and said he has one that he did back in the 1990’s in which his customer was happy. He has not done one recently, but is experienced in the OM61x since has been to regrind or repaired several to factory specs.

After a little discussion of varying applications the 617 is being used in our circle, he thinks there is a lot of capacity to get more performance out of the 617 cam, even more so then his earlier profile.

He is very interested in the working with 617 folks to create custom grind for each custom use. He offered me for about $340 shipped, a custom grind that he will work with me to get it right, provided that I get him a cam to regrind. I think this a great idea but unfortunately for my engine, I still want to make other mods i.e. different turbo and IP mod.

However, I do think it is important to get some R&D in and if somebody who is further along then I am or is looking to improve on the stock setup, should contact him or even Delta and get a project going. The more profiles available, the better for all of us.


http://www.coltcams.com/


Colt Cams Inc.
2325 264th street
Aldergrove BC V4W 2L5
Canada


Phone: 604-856-3571
Fax: 604-856-3572





.
Where does one get a blank?? you need MORE material for higher lift ,not regrinding one that was already ground, all you could do is play with the ramps with a used cam.


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