Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-20-2010, 07:48 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kandy, Srilanka.
Posts: 321
Woodrough key fallen in! help!!!!

Hi,

This is probably the biggest stupidest cock up I've had, I was installing a new woodrough key on the camshaft and I guess my finger knocked it and it fell in through, I haven't turned the crankshaft even an inch.... I don't want it to get jammed in there any ideas?

Do you think it would have gone through all the way and ended up in the oil pan?

I'm in a heap of trouble here

__________________
1975 240D W115 version 3 (Australian car )
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-20-2010, 08:13 AM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,835
only way to find out is shine lights in there, get a shielded magnet stick and start fishing around. then drop the pan and pray it's in there.
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-20-2010, 12:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 96
Hi, I'd try a magnet on end of flex rod, down in the crank gear area. If not there, then drain oil and use magnet via drain hole. You should be able to get the key out, no problem.

Ron
__________________
1971 220D, daily driver, new paint, 142K
1973 220D, low compression
1975 300D, back on the road! 166K
1971 220D, salvage, rear hit, engine excellent
1972 250, bad cam, but runs!
1971 230, engine stuck
1971 220D, low compression, rusty
1976 240D, salvage, engine excellent
1966 230SL, water in oil after rebuild
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-20-2010, 12:55 PM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
X3 on the magnet and if that doesn't work drop the lower oil pan and sieve the oil - or sieve through the oil with a magnet to make sure you've got it.

If you still can't find it there is space - although limited - to feel (perhaps look) from the bottom upwards. At least this piece has dropped into a relatively small area at the front of the engine.

(I'd also change the gasket on the lower pan whilst you are at it)

I advise you not to turn either the crankshaft or the camshaft - valves and pistons will meet. If you can, wedge the camshaft cog with a bit of wood (through the holes in the cog's casting) and a wood working clamp to stop it from moving whilst you search. You can also stop the flywheel from turning by using a proper MB tool that grips the flywheel teeth at an access point under the engine at the engine / bell housing joint. (And if your starter motor is out you can wedge the flywheel there too).

If you wedge anything in place - don't forget to unwedge it before you finish the job!

Good luck
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Last edited by Stretch; 12-20-2010 at 12:56 PM. Reason: correction
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-20-2010, 08:22 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DFW area (north side)
Posts: 1,288
Not what you need to hear now - but, I was taught early on in my wrenching days to stuff shop rags in the holes where things might fall before wrenching. I've pulled many a shop rag to retrieve small pieces that might have otherwise been lost and/or caused other problems.
__________________
Charles
1983 300D, bought new, 215k+ miles, donated to Purple Hearts veterans charity but I have parts for sale: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-cars-sale/296386-fs-1-owner-83-mb-300d-turbo-rebuild-parts.html
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-21-2010, 08:50 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kandy, Srilanka.
Posts: 321
Help what do I do?

drained oil went through it dropped oil pan,
took a look with the camshaft cover off, took a look with the oil pan off from under the engine, shook the car, NOTHING!!!

I really am in huge trouble here any more ideas?

Its close to christmas and we've got no car and everything is being held up
we really are in MASSIVE TROUBLE HERE
__________________
1975 240D W115 version 3 (Australian car )
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:03 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kandy, Srilanka.
Posts: 321
What if it had gone in and landed somewhere I cant get to?
__________________
1975 240D W115 version 3 (Australian car )
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:07 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kandy, Srilanka.
Posts: 321
I know this might sound stupid but would it be a good idea to hose some water in there to see if it falls out of the bottom?
__________________
1975 240D W115 version 3 (Australian car )
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:14 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
First thing - don't panic - you'll probably miss it.

If you still have the oil get someone else (if you can) to recheck the oil.

Whilst someone else (hopefully) is doing that try getting a bottle brush - something with fixed bristles - to rub it up and down the front cavity where the timing chain is housed.

I'd do that before resorting to removal of the following components (in the specific order)

1) Timing chain tensioner - this will give you more 'waggle' on the chain which might help
2) Timing chain idler wheel in the head - this will give you even more slack in the chain
3) IP timing device - the chain will still be whole but you'll have so much timing chain slack in it you've got to be able to find anything. Plus you'll have another access hole through the front of the engine.

Note:-
a) If you remove the tensioner (number 1) you need to refill it with oil - otherwise it won't work properly
b) Removing more parts such as the idler wheel and the IP timing device is making way more work than you wanted. You need RTV to reseal the vacuum pump - and you may as well replace the timing chain if you are going that far and replace the timing chain guides as well.

Sorry to bring bad news - but I can't see any easy way out for you. You need to take more parts off if you can't find that one bit.

Alternatively you take a risk - put it all back together and see what happens. If you do turn the engine slowly by hand and stop if you hear a crunch. Here you are really just putting your faith in the automotive Gods (or whatever).

Again I say good luck.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:17 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelsblack009 View Post
What if it had gone in and landed somewhere I cant get to?
The OM616 is very much like an OM617 - look at the pictures of my OM617 in bits in this thread:-

Timing marks gone from my OM617 engine

It can only fall down in the bit 'made for' the timing chain and find its way into the upper oil pan and then the lower one
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:19 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelsblack009 View Post
I know this might sound stupid but would it be a good idea to hose some water in there to see if it falls out of the bottom?
I would never use water when the engine is still in a semi assembled state.


If you want to clean up some areas I'd use a bottle brush with fixed bristles (as said above) and very SPARING use of brake cleaner (or something like that).
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:20 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kandy, Srilanka.
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
First thing - don't panic - you'll probably miss it.

If you still have the oil get someone else (if you can) to recheck the oil.

Whilst someone else (hopefully) is doing that try getting a bottle brush - something with fixed bristles - to rub it up and down the front cavity where the timing chain is housed.

I'd do that before resorting to removal of the following components (in the specific order)

1) Timing chain tensioner - this will give you more 'waggle' on the chain which might help
2) Timing chain idler wheel in the head - this will give you even more slack in the chain
3) IP timing device - the chain will still be whole but you'll have so much timing chain slack in it you've got to be able to find anything. Plus you'll have another access hole through the front of the engine.

Note:-
a) If you remove the tensioner (number 1) you need to refill it with oil - otherwise it won't work properly
b) Removing more parts such as the idler wheel and the IP timing device is making way more work than you wanted. You need RTV to reseal the vacuum pump - and you may as well replace the timing chain if you are going that far and replace the timing chain guides as well.

Sorry to bring bad news - but I can't see any easy way out for you. You need to take more parts off if you can't find that one bit.

Alternatively you take a risk - put it all back together and see what happens. If you do turn the engine slowly by hand and stop if you hear a crunch. Here you are really just putting your faith in the automotive Gods (or whatever).

Again I say good luck.
Thanks......

Before I go ahead and remove those things would it be a good idea to hose some water in from the top and see if it falls out of the bottom?
__________________
1975 240D W115 version 3 (Australian car )
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:22 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
We're frantically posting at the same time - see post 11 for my answer
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:24 AM
TheDon's Avatar
Ghost of Diesels Past
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelsblack009 View Post
Thanks......

Before I go ahead and remove those things would it be a good idea to hose some water in from the top and see if it falls out of the bottom?
NO!

that should help get the point across.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:29 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kandy, Srilanka.
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
We're frantically posting at the same time - see post 11 for my answer
yeah..... what if it had landed somewhere in between and not made itself all the way down so it wouldn't have been touching the oil which might explain why when we drained the oil it didn't come with it, but if I can hose it with something then it might come out from the bottom with the liquid

__________________
1975 240D W115 version 3 (Australian car )
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page