Cracked Head - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#16 01-07-2002, 04:59 PM

These wagons are really rare, in all my driving and looking at every mb on the road, I think i've only seen about 5 on the road. Put some money into it now and it will give you another 240k of faithful service.

Good luck

Michael · #17 01-07-2002, 07:05 PM

Maybe a water pump and thermostat while you have the cooling system open? I'd also consider replacing as many cooling hoses that you can...they are 14-15 years old, after all!

Good luck

mikemover · #18 01-07-2002, 07:44 PM

How 'bout finding another wagon, then use the one you have now as a parts car?...Scavenge what you think you might need in the near future for your new ride, then sell the rest to recover some of your investment. You may end up spending about the same amount of money in the long run, and end up with a nicer wagon.

Just an idea...
Mike

psfred · #19 01-07-2002, 08:07 PM

Mike:

I don't think you will regret the head replacement -- these are such very nice cars. In excellent condition the wagon is about $12k -- they are not common and are highly desirable.

Good luck!

Peter

P.E.Haiges · #20 01-07-2002, 09:24 PM

You might try Adsit: www.adsitco.com or 800-521-7656. They have used and rebuilt engines and heads.

Don't order by phone. They give a 10% discount on mail or faxed orders. Ask for their catalog and it will have an order form in it.

P E H

Michael · #21 01-07-2002, 09:36 PM

Let us know what you plan to do; many people on this Board have different deals they might be able to help with. For example, my dealer offers 20% off list to MBCA members, and free shipping if the order is over $50.

msyoder · #22 01-08-2002, 11:38 AM

I'm feeling quite positive about the whole thing. It will be nice to have the oil leaks fixed (new head casket and front seal) and valves clean.

Thanks for all who shared.

I was able to find an excellent price ($1295) for the new latest revision head at Rusty Cullens. If you need parts Rusty is worth the call.

Will keep you posted.

Now that the head will be all clean inside some have suggested that I begin using a fuel additive to keep it that way. What do you think?

Thanks,

P.E.Haiges · #23 01-08-2002, 02:46 PM

MSYODER:

Is a head casket what you bury a head in? LOL

That new head you got, was it a bare head and you have to put your old valves and srpings into it or did it include the valves, springs ETC?

P E H

msyoder · #24 01-08-2002, 03:50 PM

Yes, a head casket is what you bury a head in! That's what I get for skipping the spell checking

The head is bare except for valve guides, and studs. We'll be using the existing valves, springs and lifters.

P.E.Haiges · #25 01-08-2002, 04:33 PM

You should check the clearance of the valves in the guides and if there is looseness, the valves should be replaced. If course the valves must be ground and lapped into the valve seats. New valve seals will also need to be installed.

Do you think $79 an hour is a reasonable rate?

P E H

gsxr · #26 01-08-2002, 04:49 PM

Wow, interesting thread here. Hmmm, where to start:

1- The 1987 diesel are rather rare, particularly the wagons. I think something like 3000-4000 were all that were imported. "Parts" cars are difficult to locate, unless you get lucky (PO scared by possible cracked head, for instance!

)

2- A short block by definition is the block with bottom end components installed (pistons, crank, etc). A long block is a short block with the cylinder head added, as well as the valvetrain components. A short block NEVER includes the head!

3- I'm pretty sure Caliber Motors is plain wrong. I just called MB of Sacramento and was told there are two new long blocks in the USA right now. Their price is $11,000. (Prices vary w-i-d-e-l-y at different dealers, you need to call around a lot - or just call Rusty, he can get you one of those two for probably $7-8k, 800-741-5252)

4- The '87 OM603.96x engine is known for head problems. The 90-up OM603.97x is known for bottom end problems (bent rods, destroyed cylinders, etc.) Older iron-headed OM617's are known to be almost indestructible but their newer, aluminum bretheren are not quite so sturdy.

5- You don't really want a rebuilt, since you can buy a new long block from a dealer (well, most dealers except Caliber, I guess.)

6- A used head is not a good idea, unless it is the redesigned head. Even the old style heads are nearly impossible to locate used. The head gasket was redesigned several times as well, but whatever you get from Rusty (or the dealer) will be the current one.

7- Michael has a good point, if they haven't been changed recently a new water pump, T-stat, and all rubber hoses wouldn't hurt. Then you don't need to worry about them for at least another 100kmi. Nothing like blowing a hose on a trip, right after the $3000 head job, overheating, and - you guessed it - needing another $3000 head job. Preventive maintenance is never a waste of money!

8- The OM603 head is only available bare, it can't be bought (from Mercedes, anyway) as a complete assembly. You either swap on your used valves, cam followers, etc or buy new ones along with the head. You can probably reuse the valves, definitely the cam, and probably NOT the followers (at least not all 12, they don't usually live to 240kmi.)

9- I haven't had personal experience with Adsit but I have heard horror stories about them from other people. I've always had excellent service from Rusty, and he will price match (or beat!) anyone else including MegaParts, Adsit, and The Benz Bin. The last Adsit catalog I got didn't have fantastic prices, either. Maybe post a poll and see what the consensus is on them? Rusty has quite the good reputation on the MBZ.org lists...

OK, I'm done! Sorry for the long post...

gsxr · #27 01-08-2002, 04:52 PM

Whoops, one more item:

The dealer just quoted me 1.5 hours to R&R the front main seal, plus another 1.5 hours to R&R the radiator (and fan clutch) to access everything. Total time, 3.0 hours, at $106/hr "B" labor - $318 toal labor, plus parts.

20 hours for everything sounds like an honest quote for a shop that has never done an MB diesel before. I'd try to find one that does them fairly often... the time should be much less!

msyoder · #28 01-08-2002, 06:28 PM

Dave,

You may not have recognized me from the diesel list, but this is the poll that I was trying to point to on the list.

Thanks for the great follow on. When I said long block I really meant a complete assembly head.

I am interested in what the valve followers are? Is that also known as the hydraulic lifter?

Let me put my mechanic's quote this way:

$1400 for head replacement, front seal and timing chain.

Thanks,

gsxr · #29 01-08-2002, 07:17 PM

Hi Mike,

I found the poll (finally!) by searching on your username, from the other thread. Anyway...

The cam followers are also known as hydraulic valve lifters, depending on who you talk to. They have always been know to have an slight intermittant "tick" noise at idle. MB redesigned them several times and even the latest type may tick, even when new. However, old ones may have a very loud tick. Sometimes switching to synthetic oil can cure it, or lessen it. But it also may be a collapsed lifter. Justin (from the email list) had something like 10 out of 12 collapsed when his mechanic checked them, similar mileage to yours. My one car has developed a loud tick despite using Delvac-1, and I suspect I need a few lifters. The PO had 5 (or 7?) replaced at 140k back in 1994, so I have a mix of old & new. They are ~$15 each - it would be nice to replace all of your 240kmi-old ones, but that would be pricey. Have the shop at least make sure they aren't collapsed, replace any that are.

[Marshall has stated not to bother replacing them only to correct the tick, but only to replace them if collapsed. Whether to replace them all as preventive maintenance is a judgment call. Replacing them later requires cam removal, not simple, but not nearly as much hassle as yanking manifolds & heads!]

About the 3.5 head question - my friend at the dealer thought the 603.96x heads were superceded by the 603.97x heads, and according to the Benz Bin's catalog, that seems to be correct. Both 3.0L and 3.5L engines appear to use the same (improved designed) head!

About the labor, I'm really not sure. $1400 seems to be at the high end of reasonableness. For grins, call your local dealer and ask what COMPLETE book time is for the head job (including all preceding jobs, i.e. radiator removal, etc). Then ask what their labor rate is. That would be my ballpark. We already know the front seal is 3.0 hours book time @ ~$100/hr... so $1400 for everything isn't insane. I'd hope it to be closer to ~$1000 myself.

My main concern is that the mechanic has done other MB diesel head jobs and generally has a clue about MB diesels! If so, it's probably easier to just go ahead rather than have the car towed elsewhere. If you have ANY reservations about their competency get the car out of there immediately! These engines are too valueable to let someone screw them up.

Keep us posted on the progress!

msyoder · #30 01-09-2002, 11:52 AM

Dave,

My mechanic has proven to be very knowledgeable on these and other MB diesels. I think the price takes into account my location -- NYC vicinity.

He checked all the lifters and though they tick at idle non are collapsed.

Thanks,

View Poll Results: Should I spend more money on this car?
Yes, invest in the head and other work.	21	87.50%
No, Give up while your ahead.	3	12.50%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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