I have a 81 240D that with little maintenance, just keeps running and running, and running. Has over 240,000 miles and starts up in the cold weather with no effort.

Anyway, just came back from walking the dog, and saw one of those, "let's save the plant" hybrid.

In 30 years will the same hybrid still be around, ready to start up and go?

Just something to think about.

Bob
240D

Completely different thing. My W211 won't be around in 30 years either, but my W123s will still be around.

It will be interesting to see how long the hybrids really last. Especially with the high cost of battery replacement.

I've wonder a similar thing. My 240 has 310k miles on it and it's 33 years old. What have the overall affects of resource use been of keeping this car on the road rather than buying a new one every few years. Most cars don't seem to make it much past 150k.

Another related thought is, what is the cost of buying a new hybrid to get better mileage. Your bank account isn't going to see much savings when you are paying >$200/month in car payments, when I pay at most $50 a month for maintenance on my 33 year old 310k mile car.

I've often thought that it might be better to use what you have, by maintaining it well, and getting the most out of it, rather than buying the latest technology, that may or may not actually be any better in the long run. If you toss out the old every time the latest tech comes out because it's "more efficient". I feel a lot is being wasted in the name of efficiency. Don't get me wrong efficiency is great and we should strive to get the most out of what we use, but is it still efficient to toss it out every time something else comes along.

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If you need to borrow money to buy any car, it's automatically a bad deal. The correct question is are you better off writing a $30k check for a hybrid v. writing a $20k check for a similar economy car. The answer is based on the amount of fuel savings and the alternative uses that you could put that money to.

see graphic, this is a typical car figures for US made cars, over 14 years based on a 1990 ford taurus getting 21.8 mpg, this is energy





same car, this is toxic waste

I agree. But most people don't go to the dealer and are able to write a $30k check. Also if you are already planning on buying a new car, you're spending the money anyway. So it will save you money to buy a car that is more fuel efficient.

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You pay a premium for a hybrid, to the tune of $5000 or there about but the saving is peanut per month. If you do average 15K a year, like most American, or 1250 miles per month, then a hybrid will save you about 30 dollars at most per month. That is assuming a hybrid gets 45mpg and a gas car gets 35mpg. You save 8 gallons of fuel so what is the big deal.

You need 166 months to recoup the premium, by then the hybrid is destined for the JY. This 166 months is not technically correct as the $5000 premium can be invested elsewhere to give you a return, hence lengthen the payback period. If one adds on the battery replacement then gas car is a better choice.

It is difficult to compare with a W123 as the comfort level, safety is different. Also if one does not have the $25K to spend then it is completely moot.

But I forgot people buy it for the 'feel good' factor. I am into green energy but it never make sense for me after I work out the numbers.

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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

I am perfectly comfortable driving my old cars... I HATE car payments.

But when you ride in a friends brand new car it makes you wonder if your doing the right thing. Practical and functional only get you so far.

I went to the auto show a few weeks ago. My friend and I were looking at 2011 Kia's with leather interior and, my friends favorite, HID headlights. Then when it comes time to leave we get in to my '92 400E... still smells like leather when we get in. I doubt a KIA can do that after 20 years.

I actually doubt a KIA would still run after 20 years.

Let's see.... my last car payments were $438 a month for a new mustang GT.

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08 R320 CDI current

Past
95 E420
87 300D Turbo 5spd
90 300TE
83 300SD
85 300TD
92 400E
85 190D

I went to the Detroit auto show last year, I wasn't tempted by anything. My wife likes driving the W211, but it still feels like a video game to me. New ricers/domestics feel like crap.

There is one glaring difference between hybrids and classic Mercedes... Hybrids have no class.

The only hybrid that I thought had a chance surviving was the S class diesel hybrid. Everything looked pretty good on paper, but talking to the guy at the local dealer parts counter I was told that one of them they serviced needed a new battery. The cost for this battery? $30,000!!! Can you guess what that car will be worth after the warranty expires?

In the hybrid/be-green-to-be-cool arguments I think hydrogen cars are the way to go. I know I know I know that hydrogen is expensive to produce but it's much better than having a battery car or a hybrid with no torque. And the hydrogen processes will get better with time.

And if Honda would make a RWD FCX Clarity AND sell it somewhere else other than the Peoples Republic of California I would buy several.

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Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat

I recondition w123/w126/w124/w140/r107/r129/ steering boxes!


1984 300D "Elsa" odo reset 6/2011 147k
1983 300TD "Mitzi" ~268k OM603 powered
1995 E300 "Adelheid" 262k [Sold]

I believe you have made a msitake, Electric motors make 100% of there available torque as soon as they start to turn. Just because prius's are lame does not make hybrids useless. Check out the volt the electric motors spit out the equvilant of 150hp which just so happens to be equal to the four cylinder na gas engines that are available. Another good example are the tesla road cars very fast and all electric.

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1996 s10 zr2 with a 6.5 turbo diesel
1996 c2500 suburban with a 6.5 turbo diesel
1981 300sd with a turbo 617
Monte carlo figure 8 car

Just to comment on this (hot ...to me) topic, and reflect on comments of others.

At no point does anyone look at the energy to make a car, all its parts, etc, then the cost to recycle it. This matters in the big picture. How about the energy and materials to make a hybrid compared to its service life? Looking at this the W123 would have a very low impact coefficient given its LONG service life.

Many friends of mine buy a subcompact car for its perceived efficiency, then have little or no cargo space, passengers are not very comfortable, road noise is high, and build quality is low. These cars get 30 to maybe 40mpg. I compare the weight of one of these vehicles and the total weight given its full capacity and compare to our diesel powered Chevrolet Suburban that carries 9 people and still has more trunk space. If you compare weight to MPG or MPG to passenger ratio, the bigger vehicle is clearly more 'efficient'. The other argument I make, is that If I am going to drive a faggy little sub compact, I had better be getting 100mpg, not 35. Our W210 E300 is capable of 35mpg and with some tweaking, I'd bet I could see 40. With respect to Luxury and economy, the econo cars are a joke.

Even my 2 1/2 year old now prefers the benz. She is sensitive to loud noises. My wife drives her dad's VW golf from time to time to keep it from just sitting. Our little girl says "grandpas car is too loud, I want to go in mommy's car".
We both chuckled.



back to my earlier point. Compare the energy to build and recycle an economy car with a useable life of 150K compared to a benz of say 300K miles. You'd have to build, recycle and build again to cover the same service life as a diesel benz. Will the user spend more or less? Who knows, this example is to consider efficiency and better use of resources.

Thoughts?

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83 300TD (need rear wiper assembly dead or alive)
84 300SD Daily driver
85 300TD almost 400k miles and driven daily.
98 E300D *sold
86 300SDL *sold and made flawless 10 hour journey to new home.

Hydrogen is a net loss by the time you get to the end use, which is presumably a fuel cell. It is not an energy source, it is a storage medium just like a battery. As battery technology improves, H2 will become less attractive as an option.

There is no energy benefit to producing H2 from electrolysis or natural gas when you consider that energy from coal will be required for the former, and the latter is a good engine fuel just as it is.

It is nothing more than a "feel good" idea promoted by people who didn't pay attention in science class when they were in school. Don't hold your breath while waiting for ex-governor Arnie's "hydrogen highway" to take shape.

Wait, Arnie is building a Hydrogen highway?


"Life is a highway, I wanna drive it all night long...."

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83 300TD (need rear wiper assembly dead or alive)
84 300SD Daily driver
85 300TD almost 400k miles and driven daily.
98 E300D *sold
86 300SDL *sold and made flawless 10 hour journey to new home.