Towing cross country w/ 300d or 240d?? - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

leathermang · #61 01-31-2011, 11:15 PM

A properly setup hydraulic surge equipped trailer has the potential of helping you stop faster than you can without it attached...

t walgamuth · #62 01-31-2011, 11:25 PM

When I was in Europe in '73 we had a lightweight travel trailer which had mechanical surge brakes. They worked very well and there was a lever on the tongue with a ratchet so you could pick up the tongue and move the trailer around in the campsite and when you had it where you wanted you could pull the lever like a parking brake and hold it in place.

I towed it with a 61 220b. The hitch was one of those goose neck affairs which came up from under the bumper.

The only difficuly came when the trailer started whipping when going down hill. With no ability to brake the trailer to stop it the only alternative was to gas it. Luckily there was no reason to brake at the bottom of the hill!

That little trailer had independant suspension and would just follow the car wherever you went. You could even corner fairly hard with it without it pushing the car at all.

leathermang · #63 01-31-2011, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

... With no ability to brake the trailer to stop it the only alternative was to gas it. .....

Are you saying that some / all ? electrically operated trailer brake systems have the ability to independently engage the trailer brakes to deal with something like your example of whipping ? Or was I reading too much into the sentence ?

vstech · #64 02-01-2011, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Are you saying that some / all ? electrically operated trailer brake systems have the ability to independently engage the trailer brakes to deal with something like your example of whipping ? Or was I reading too much into the sentence ?

yup. that's how electric brakes with an actuator function.
however, the REASON the trailer is whipping back and forth is it's not loaded properly. or it's a load that needs a better hitch with compensators.

destroy · #65 02-01-2011, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Are you saying that some / all ? electrically operated trailer brake systems have the ability to independently engage the trailer brakes to deal with something like your example of whipping ? Or was I reading too much into the sentence ?

As a matter of fact, yes!

Again... gonna repeat myself... doesn't look like a lot of experience with towing here on this forum! Not that I blame you guys... most of the auto forums I frequented before I bought a Benz were all for diesel pickups.

Preemptive apology for the long-winded post...

Pretty much every trailer brake controller I've ever handled has a sliding button that allows you to manually engage the trailer brakes up to a limit. Pretty easy to make the tires lock and smoke here

. Most travel trailers above a certain size have trailer sway bars that attach the tongue of the trailer to the hitch to eliminate sway and stabilize the trailer. This is at best a band-aid that doesn't address the short-comings of the standard ball-coupler design. There are some fancy aftermarket solutions like the Pullrite and some others that are said to be just fantastic and a phenomenal improvement over the traditional style, but that's another story... When Ford integrated their trailer brake controller into their heavy duty trucks from the factory in 2005, it was a huge improvement over what everyone else was using and makes the job significantly safer. A direct and 100% accurate link from the tow vehicle to the trailer brakes makes for smoother braking, even less sway, and an overall smoother and safer tow. Some of the after market controllers out there are pretty damn good and work almost seamlessly, but due to the nature of their design (accelerometers, etc to make on the fly adjustments) they'll never be quite as good as a good factory unit directly tied into the engine controls.

Some thoughts:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 40 years ago there were a lot more sedans on the road with V6's and V8's. These cars were bigger, and heavier than pretty much every vehicle on the road today that isn't an SUV or pickup. Granted, their brakes weren't as good as those today, but that's a different story. In this case, to our advantage (and disadvantage, in some cases, depending on how you wanna look at it) these old Benzes are some of the heaviest cars around... which makes them a lot more like the old cars.

Hydraulic surge brakes are definitely better than no brakes, but they're no substitution for electric trailer brakes - which are usually a compromise in some form as it is. It seems obvious to me that brakes that function and activate by inertia pushing forward on the tow vehicle before they do any actual braking is a bad idea. Doesn't sound very smooth to me! They're also a lot more costly and more demanding to maintain. On top of all this, they aren't even legal. I think they're great for UHauls and other rental companies who need to have some kind of idiot-proofing built into their systems for people who may not have any idea of how to tow safely, but they still aren't the real deal.

The #1 selling vehicle in the US and up here in Canada is at the very least capable of safely pulling around at least 10,000 lbs. Say what you will about our sometimes conspicuous consumption and lifestyle in this part of the world - that's the way things are. So, with everyone running around in capable, utilitarian trucks everywhere whether they need them or not - it's no wonder we eventually pull trailers with them.

Characteristics that are inherent in a good tow vehicle:

-A powerful, durable drivetrain. The reason for this should be obvious. I'd hardly call an old diesel Benz (without a lot of tuning, tweaking, and performance parts) powerful.
-Strong frame and suspension. Now, it's great and pretty damn capable as far as cars go... and I don't know about you, but I wouldn't consider my Benz to be much in the way of a hauler. The suspension is in great shape on my car, and it doesn't even like it when I've got a car full of guys, never mind throwing any junk in the trunk... forget hooking up a trailer. I'm real hard like a redneck on everything I own, but I don't know if I could handle the kind of bottoming out and scraping this task would induce.
-Brakes!!!! obviously the brakes on larger SUV's and pickups are designed for carrying much greater weights than our old Benzes were ever intended for.
-Vehicle weight. A good tow vehicle needs to be heavy and sure-footed. A trailer's weight needs to be properly distributed, and that means a certain percentage of it needs to be between the tongue and the front axle of the trailer, in order to avoid sway. Trailers have a tendency to "wag the dog" and can cause some serious accidents if all of this isn't the case. That's not to say you can't tow some serious loads that are much bigger and heavier than the tow vehicle, but it's gotta be designed for it. You wouldn't want to be carrying around a big rock that you can barely even carry, that might weight as much as you do you, would you? I don't imagine you'd be very nimble if you had to, either.

These things are all pretty much common-sense physics, but people still ignore them all the time. At my work we haul around trailers up to 30,000 lbs on the regular, safely, without incident. It doesn't hurt to have the right tools for the job...

This is a lot more extreme than what some people would be getting themselves into, but it doesn't hurt to have a reminder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wMkK_DVzjo

That said, towing (even very large loads) can still be done very safely. Happy motoring!

47dodge · #66 02-01-2011, 06:59 AM

Have you used hydraulic surge brakes? I have them on my boat trailer, remember water and electric do not get along. They work very well, very smooth, and almost never lock a wheel. will in a hard stop do a rolling skid. On my large trailer(3 axle 18,000) I have electric, always trouble, always locking wheels when the trailer is empty. I used to have a dump truck with a nice controller, but it was still not a nice as surge brakes in smoothness, and dependable stopping. I'll take hydraulic surge brakes any day, and yes they are legal, at least here in the US. And take less maintenance then electric too.

rocky raccoon · #67 02-01-2011, 07:16 AM

As usual, we have digressed far afield.

The real answer is that a 1982+ 300D will pull a small utility trailer just fine. Especially if you are taking a week to go less than 3000 miles. Put a hitch on it, check your cooling system and transmission and enjoy the ride.

I pulled one that size for 1000 miles with a 750lb shovelhead in it plus everything else I could load. My tow vehicle at that time was a 1978 Toyota pickup.

t walgamuth · #68 02-01-2011, 10:13 AM

The comment about my trailer in 1973 whipping back and forth is right on. Of course a leveling hitch was not available at that time for me. I also had four adults a child and all their stuff to deal with. (how do you spell overloaded?)

I actually had ballasted the back of the trailer some to alleviate the low rear end on the benz, but after the whipping incident I reloaded it more toward the hitch and just lived with the sagging rear of the car.

But the old 220b did it all without complaint.

ashedd · #69 02-01-2011, 11:12 AM

Having never owned a trailer...

How do you guesstimate the weight of the load? If I bought a small utility trailer and loaded it with "crap", camping type stuff, what would that load be? I am guessing an 8X5 trailer full of gravel would be about as heavy as it would get.

destroy · #70 02-01-2011, 11:37 AM

Common-sense estimates? Otherwise, dumps and truck stops have weigh scales you can use if you need to.

Gravel is heavier than you would think, just so you know. A yard in the backup of a half-ton pickup will probably have you sitting on the overloads and the tires bulging.

t walgamuth · #71 02-01-2011, 11:47 AM

A yard of gravel will weigh nearly two tons....more than a half ton truck will handle probably.

leathermang · #72 02-01-2011, 11:59 AM

Thanks guys.... I did not know that you could control/manipulate electric brakes independent of the brake pedal in the car... Sounds like a very smart emergency function..
like if your vacuum pump went out on our cars...
I only had a trailer start whipping once in my life.. in my early twenties .. I did not own the truck or trailer and was not in charge of loading either.. it was really scary...Totally agree that the loading and balance are what causes problems...

ONE PROBLEM... some cars with computer controls .. like our 91 Honda accord... required something be installed in order to use electric brake hookups to it...
So research that first in case you have to order it from somewhere... not the day you are thinking about leaving for the trip......

bustedbenz · #73 02-01-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Thanks guys.... I did not know that you could control/manipulate electric brakes independent of the brake pedal in the car... Sounds like a very smart emergency function..
like if your vacuum pump went out on our cars...
I only had a trailer start whipping once in my life.. in my early twenties .. I did not own the truck or trailer and was not in charge of loading either.. it was really scary...Totally agree that the loading and balance are what causes problems...

ONE PROBLEM... some cars with computer controls .. like our 91 Honda accord... required something be installed in order to use electric brake hookups to it...
So research that first in case you have to order it from somewhere... not the day you are thinking about leaving for the trip......

We have this one installed on our pickup. http://www.tekonsha.com/content/products.aspx?lvl=3&parentid=1400&catID=1435&part=9030

The front "lip" of the box has a finger-slide switch that you squeeze inwards to apply the trailer brakes. Ours will lock the trailer tires IF it's turned up to maximum.

vstech · #74 02-01-2011, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by destroy

Common-sense estimates? Otherwise, dumps and truck stops have weigh scales you can use if you need to.

Gravel is heavier than you would think, just so you know. A yard in the backup of a half-ton pickup will probably have you sitting on the overloads and the tires bulging.

a 5x8x2 trailer bed would contain WAAAAY more gravel than the springs or tires could control! unless it's a twin axle freight trailer it's VERY unsafe and likely would seriously damage the trailer.

a 3/4 ton pickup with heavy suspension Might be able to handle a yard of gravel, but I'd not want to put that much in mine... MAYBE in a 1 ton with duals out back.

SwampYankee · #75 02-01-2011, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47dodge

Have you used hydraulic surge brakes? I have them on my boat trailer, remember water and electric do not get along. They work very well, very smooth, and almost never lock a wheel. will in a hard stop do a rolling skid. On my large trailer(3 axle 18,000) I have electric, always trouble, always locking wheels when the trailer is empty. I used to have a dump truck with a nice controller, but it was still not a nice as surge brakes in smoothness, and dependable stopping. I'll take hydraulic surge brakes any day, and yes they are legal, at least here in the US. And take less maintenance then electric too.

I have the hydraulic surge brakes on my boat trailer and other than having to "disengage" the brakes with the lever on the tongue when backing, they are easier to deal with and far more reliable than the electric brakes on our utility trailer. Both 3,500 lb. capacity.

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