What oil formulations have a good amount of zinc? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

gastropodus · #1 02-05-2011, 02:23 AM

I was talking to Brian at Bearing Service today about the break-in period for my soon-to-be-complete OM616 engine, and he mentioned that it would be a good idea to locate some oil with a good amount of zinc in it for the secondary period of break-in. He strongly suggests that I go with some special oil that he can sell me for the very first few hundred miles, but after that I can either use regular oil with zinc, or a secondary special oil that he also sells. His special oils are spendy; I'm willing to buy a six pack for the initial period, but I'd like to just buy off-the-shelf oil for the next period. Apparently this is an issue because the most common and cost-effective oils on the market have had the zinc levels reduced because

a) newer engines with roller bearings don't need it
b) it messes up emission systems

I poked around on bobistheoilguy.com, but didn't see anything especially pertinent, other than to learn that in the old days 1200 ppm was considered an effective level for zinc.

At the risk of starting an oil thread... anyone got info on zinc in commonly available oils?

Thanks,

Kurt

layback40 · #2 02-05-2011, 02:41 AM

Its the valve gear/cam that suffers without zinc. As you dont have a cat converter so you could use it if you could find it. There should be a bit of info on google as to what the zinc compound previously used is. It should be available for other lubrication applications.
I am interested to know more about this "run in" oil. What can you tell us?

thatguy · #3 02-05-2011, 03:06 AM

Schaeffer's Supreme 7000 has a great additive package, you can find a ton of threads on bobistheoilguy.com about it. It's highly recommended for the Powerstroke trucks becuase it has a great amount of zinc, among other things. It's a synthetic blend oil and they do offer it in 15w-40 diesel-rated, but it can be tricky to find locally depending on your location.

benhogan · #4 02-05-2011, 06:00 AM

It gets very expensive but the oil you want is the Mobil1 oil for motorcycles. It has the highest zinc content per the Mobil1 data sheets.

BrianCostello · #5 02-05-2011, 06:46 AM

Go for the full syn oils used in VW Tdi's

Especially the ones recommended for the PD motors.

VW spec 505.01 I believe. Lots of zinc to protect the cam driven injectors.

There are also zinc additives. ZDDP is one

scottmcphee · #6 02-05-2011, 09:56 AM

Maybe don't deviate from diesel rated engine oil, for the sake of zinc.

Don't know too many motorbikes that are diesel, for example.

gastropodus · #7 02-05-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

Its the valve gear/cam that suffers without zinc. As you dont have a cat converter so you could use it if you could find it. There should be a bit of info on google as to what the zinc compound previously used is. It should be available for other lubrication applications.
I am interested to know more about this "run in" oil. What can you tell us?

The oils that he carries specifically for use during the break-in period are these Gibbs oils. For instance, here is the BR grade:

http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/products/breakin/index.html

I think he said it cost between $8 and $9 USD per quart, which is high, but not that far off from the synthetics. He did also say that he has had no good experiences with simply using additives, he was very down on that approach.

Kurt

JHZR2 · #8 02-05-2011, 04:12 PM

Schaeffers is a good option if you can get it. In reality a standard HDEOS has enough zinc for these engines. If you want more, id get redline breakin additive or another ZDDP add along those lines.

toecutter · #9 02-05-2011, 04:18 PM

rotella t 15w40 1200ppm zn (which is going to be the norm for any diesel formulation, synthetic or not).

don't throw your money away, rotella t is just fine for breaking in. dino oil is preferrable to synthetic for getting the rings seated in.

and zinc content is preferrable in motrcycles not always for the sake of the engine, but for the transmission. i use rotella t in the transmission of the rz350, which has no cam or valves, nor even crankcase oil. friction modifiers found in automotive (not diesel or 4stroke m/c) oils tend to mess with your clutch.

Colorado220 · #10 02-05-2011, 04:58 PM

If you are looking for a good additive that has zinc try the "MOA" by BG products.

EDBSO · #11 02-05-2011, 11:51 PM

I prefer molybdenum

Squiggle Dog · #12 02-06-2011, 02:26 AM

I use Amsoil 15W40 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine oil, which has 1267 ppm of phosphorus and 1377 ppm of zinc.

DeliveryValve · #13 02-06-2011, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gastropodus

The oils that he carries specifically for use during the break-in period are these Gibbs oils. For instance, here is the BR grade:

http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/products/breakin/index.html

I think he said it cost between $8 and $9 USD per quart, which is high, but not that far off from the synthetics. He did also say that he has had no good experiences with simply using additives, he was very down on that approach.

Kurt

Stick with the Joe Gibbs break in oil. That is the best stuff out there. Has 2700ppm ZDDP, and got some good amount of lead in it. (really for off road, race track use, not street use)

I would use it for the initial fill and first 1/2 hour or so of 2000 rpm running and then dump it to get rid of any machining debris. Refill again with Joe Gibbs break in oil and run it for 500 miles.

Afterwards run dino (not synthetic) oil with ZDDP additive for another 2500 miles. Then you can use what ever oil you want, like a synthetic.

.

retmil46 · #14 02-06-2011, 10:06 AM

Short and sweet answer is any diesel engine rated oil that still has an API classification of CI-4 / CI-4 +, or earlier.

With the latest CJ-4 classification, for 2007 and later diesels with exhaust particulate filters, they began reducing the levels of certain components in the additive package in the oil, to work with the new emissions hardware and requirements.

Caterpillar still sells DEO 15W40 and 10W30 conventional CI-4 rated oil for their engines. You can get it in a gallon jug at any Cat or truck service center. Last time I picked some up, little over a year ago, Roush Truck Service Center in Buda TX along I-35, it was around $13/gallon. Cat actually lists the zinc and phosphorous levels in their different grades of oil on their website.

Valvoline also still sells Premium Blue Classic, CI-4 rated, albeit only in 5 gallon pails from what I've been able to learn, through Cummins Service Centers, for pre-2007 OTR engines.

As was mentioned, Amsoil sells several different grades of oil specifically for pre-2007 engines to the older CI-4 spec with high levels of zinc and phosphorous. A fellow Jeep CRD owner in Charlotte has been running their AMO 10W40 synthetic with high levels of zinc and phosphorous, and to our surprise around 50 ppm of moly as well, with quite good results, both as far as the way the engine runs and what he's seen on his oil analysis.

The most readily available engine break-in additives I've seen, for initial run-in after rebuilding an engine, are from Lucas and Redline. You can usually find the Lucas break-in additive at Advance Auto stores. Specifically states on the bottle it contains high levels of zinc, ony for engine break-in and not continuous use, and not for use in 1995 and later gas engine vehicles with catalytic converters. No idea what the concentration is in the Lucas additive, or what it will raise the concentration to in your oil. Redline lists on their website what the concentration levels are in their additive, and provide a chart that shows how much ppm increase in zinc and phosphorous will result per quart of sump capacity for adding a whole and 1/2 bottle of their additive.

gastropodus · #15 02-06-2011, 02:55 PM

Thank you, many of these replies have been informative and helpful.

Kurt