Busted off oil pan bolt - what to do? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

HuskyMan · #16 02-16-2011, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpenterman

Sorry for the bad info. It's what I get for being lazy and referring to Haynes which is what I had on hand.

The FSM CD says 9-11 nm.

thanks for checking, I'm going to take my torque wrench and set the bolts at the proper torque.

vstech · #17 02-16-2011, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

The Haynes manual does list the oil pan bolts at 30 ft lbs. Those with no experience or feel of general torque values for a given size nut ar bolt this could spell disaster.

SERIOUSLY? I gotta look that one up on one of my Haynes manuals...
WOW.

Diesel911 · #18 02-16-2011, 07:05 PM

If the Pan is not leaking Oil do not worry about the Borken Bolts. Leave it for another time when the Pan needs to come off.

If it leaking and you not want to attempt drilling out the broken bolts; get a new Pan Gasket, remove the Pan, clean and degrease the sealing areas with Brake Cleaner and use the Ultra type Silicon Sealant thinly on both sides of the Gasket.

Bolt, up the pan but be sure to let it sit and cure before pouring in oil or starting. (If it is really cold where you are use some sort of heater to help it cure.)

If you let the Silicon Sealant cure that reduces the chance of little pieces breaking off.

Another option is to leave the old Broken Bolts there and drill new holes next to them and use a small Bolt and Nuts or if you want tap out the holes for Bolts (you would need the correct Tap Drill Size to do that).

gatorblue92 · #19 02-16-2011, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

The Haynes manual does list the oil pan bolts at 30 ft lbs. Those with no experience or feel of general torque values for a given size nut ar bolt this could spell disaster.

yeah i remember seeing this when i changed my oil pan gasket and only went just over finger tight... not the first time the haynes manual has been wrong

layback40 · #20 02-16-2011, 08:56 PM

On the N/A motors some of those bolts go right through. If you are that lucky it may be possible to grip it on the other end & keep screwing it until its out.

leathermang · #21 02-16-2011, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

......If you let the Silicon Sealant cure that reduces the chance of little pieces breaking off. .....

One of the very best types of gaskets is cork on which the Silicon RTV has been very lightly applied AND LET CURE OVERNIGHT... thus no chances of any ' squeezing' out and winding up clogging some oil passage...

Diesel911 · #22 02-16-2011, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

One of the very best types of gaskets is cork on which the Silicon RTV has been very lightly applied AND LET CURE OVERNIGHT... thus no chances of any ' squeezing' out and winding up clogging some oil passage...

I do not have a preference for Cork Gaskets because they shrink/compress more than other gasket materials over time.

There are some Gasket materials that rubber adhesive to hold the Cork particles together; they will last longer than the run-of-mill cork gaskets.

I have not had any issues with the use of Silicon Sealant. But, where there is a small passage involved I do not use it.

My reason for mentioning the curing is that if you have not over done the amount; even a little squeezes out if it cures it remains attached.

But, those are my personal choices.

When I had my Oil Pan off when I changed my Turbo Drain Seals and knocked the dents out of my Oil Pan I reused the old Gasket by the use of Silicon Sealant.
In fact even though you are not supposed to need it a few days ago I used Silicon Sealant on my Transmission Pan Gasket.

leathermang · #23 02-16-2011, 11:00 PM

At one time it was common for people to substitute RTV for the gasket... then when they put it together not having cured.. which was the instructions... if they had too much it squeezed out inside the cavity... and problems with too much are well documented over the last couple of decades... much better to just use it as the glue for an actual gasket..
The RTV covered cork eliminated the oil leaks on many an air cooled VW which had the spring valve cover retainers...

Cr from Texas · #24 02-17-2011, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

I think he said the shaft was buried... thus no way to cut slots or grab with vice grips...
I would suggest using a punch to center punch the bolt...
and choose a LEFT HANDED DRILL to carefully drill very close to the size of the minor diameter ( I think it is called..) IE, do not drill out any threads....
what small amount of metal is left typically is easy to extract... or the whole thing may back out as you drill... this is what happens on the plates holding the door strikers most of the time...
I would not ever use the typical ' easy out '.... and few machinists use them either... the can make the situation even worse... as they are higher strength metal to later try to drill if they break off.. but what typically happens is that they bugger up the threads on the starting end of the hole... so even getting in later with a tap to clean and restore the thread you need to reinstall a new bolt....

Left hand bit has always worked for me. However, I start (and usually end) with a much smaller bit than the minor diameter - usually about half unless it would be too easy to break. That reduces the chance of damaging the threads. The bolt usually backs out not long after I get a good hole started. Nothing left to clean up as the bolt cleans the path as it comes out. My first time came when I did this to a GM valve cover bolt. I misread the in-lb value as ft-lb.

Diesel911 · #25 02-17-2011, 12:38 AM

Yep, (silicon sealant) can be too much of a good thing.

My Boss used to let it cure and firm up some before installing. I always preferred to use as little as possible and I have maybe only 5 times used it without a gasket.

The one place where I used to work they banned the use of Teflon Pipe Sealing Tape because the trained Mechanics kept wrapping it beyond the end of the threads and pieces of it ended up in Fuel Systems and Oil Galleries.

That did not make Teflon Sealing Tape a bad item to use. Things just have to be used correctly.

leathermang · #26 02-17-2011, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cr from Texas

Left hand bit has always worked for me. However, I start (and usually end) with a much smaller bit than the minor diameter - usually about half unless it would be too easy to break. That reduces the chance of damaging the threads. The bolt usually backs out not long after I get a good hole started. Nothing left to clean up as the bolt cleans the path as it comes out. My first time came when I did this to a GM valve cover bolt. I misread the in-lb value as ft-lb.

I totally agree... I was being lazy not saying ' work up in size' .. and I know some will be unhappy at the cost of good left hand thread drill bits... but they are one of those miracle workers in some situations...

leathermang · #27 02-17-2011, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Yep, (silicon sealant) can be too much of a good thing.

My Boss used to let it cure and firm up some before installing. I always preferred to use as little as possible and I have maybe only 5 times used it without a gasket.

The one place where I used to work they banned the use of Teflon Pipe Sealing Tape because the trained Mechanics kept wrapping it beyond the end of the threads and pieces of it ended up in Fuel Systems and Oil Galleries.

That did not make Teflon Sealing Tape a bad item to use. Things just have to be used correctly.

It is often hard to take out the ' human failure element' without ' drastic' ( banning the item or procedure) ...because it so often includes the mindset of ' if a little is good... more is better'.... LOL

whunter · #28 02-17-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

This morning went to tighten some obviously loose oil pan bolts. One of them broke off leaving the bolt shaft buried. Is there a way to remove the broken off shaft without removing the oil pan? Thanks! (1984 300DT)

Extracting Broken Bolts, Studs, Extractors, Drill bits, and Taps
Extracting Broken Bolts, Studs, Extractors, Drill bits, and Taps

US & Metric Bolt Torque by Grade
US & Metric Bolt Torque by Grade

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leathermang · #29 02-17-2011, 03:21 PM

Ok.. we might as well go the whole nine yards on this..

IF the left hand drill does not work ( very unusual )
then the next step is to buy the correct size TAP for the hole you just drilled ( better to plan ahead on this and get the tap for about 75% thread ( pretty standard ...as compared to the higher % which you might be offered but which might be too much friction for the low tech ( meaning you did not have he drill in a press to hold it straight) methodology we assume being used.
So you tap the hole you drilled with the left hand drill bit ( or you could have gone for the longer vision and used a regular right hand drill bit ... they make the same hole but the drilling forces often cause the bolt to back out with the left hand drill bit) with a left hand tap of the correct size ( choose the wrong size and you are farther into the hole than when you started due to the hardness of the tap you break off ... same as the easy out situation )..and then you find a grade 8 bolt of the correct size and threads to fit your new left hand hole...and screw it in... as it bottoms out you should be able to exert a lot of force in the correct removal direction of the original broken bolt just by screwing in this new bolt...

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