617 piston damage - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stretch · #31 02-24-2011, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach0415

At the same time I do not want to put a ton of money in this thing, as it is not my daily driver. It has a good body and interior...needs some paint, but is not too bad. Parting it out looks better and better. I wish I could get a feel of what I would need $$$ wise to put into it to determine where I go from here...decisions decisions.

I feel the pain - sorry I really can't help you on that - it comes down to personal choice.

layback40 · #32 02-24-2011, 10:25 AM

Mark,
If its done 360k miles, I would be looking for a good low mileage motor. Probably trans as well unless its been done up.
If you do the quick fix, I wouldnt plan on keeping it too long. Maybe sell it to some one to run on WVO.

leathermang · #33 02-24-2011, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

Mark,
If its done 360k miles, I would be looking for a good low mileage motor. Probably trans as well unless its been done up.
If you do the quick fix, I wouldnt plan on keeping it too long. Maybe sell it to some one to run on WVO.

The fun thing about a good used engine ( if you can find one )... is that then the time pressure is off of the fix on this one... you can take your time to do a really good forensic exam and think about your options...
In addition to what Barry described about a bead down the bore.. fixing a dry ice pack to drop down it for a few minutes before using the pulling hammer might be cleaner....then do the same for installation of the new sleeve...
If you take it out for a rebuild... remember that to clean the oil bores which feed the squirters... you have to take out a couple of steel balls which are hidden at this time by the front of the trans bellhousing....of course that is all in the FSM...
Trying to get the rod bearings correctly measured, and placed in an engine like this with it in the car.... might be theoretically doable... but I can not imagine how hard that would be on one's body...... putting the engine on an engine stand so you can rotate it... PRICELESS....

mach0415 · #34 02-24-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

Mark,
If its done 360k miles, I would be looking for a good low mileage motor. Probably trans as well unless its been done up.
If you do the quick fix, I wouldnt plan on keeping it too long. Maybe sell it to some one to run on WVO.

Haha! Ditto.

franklynb · #35 02-24-2011, 06:09 PM

There is a listing in Parts by a seller in High Point planning to sell a running engine.
"disgo".

HTH.

barry123400 · #36 02-24-2011, 06:11 PM

Check the block serial number to see if it was original to the car.

mach0415 · #37 02-25-2011, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

The fun thing about a good used engine ( if you can find one )... is that then the time pressure is off of the fix on this one... you can take your time to do a really good forensic exam and think about your options...
In addition to what Barry described about a bead down the bore.. fixing a dry ice pack to drop down it for a few minutes before using the pulling hammer might be cleaner....then do the same for installation of the new sleeve...
If you take it out for a rebuild... remember that to clean the oil bores which feed the squirters... you have to take out a couple of steel balls which are hidden at this time by the front of the trans bellhousing....of course that is all in the FSM...
Trying to get the rod bearings correctly measured, and placed in an engine like this with it in the car.... might be theoretically doable... but I can not imagine how hard that would be on one's body...... putting the engine on an engine stand so you can rotate it... PRICELESS....

x2

I am leaning in this direction. I can see hone marks on most all the other pots, but I still have not cleaned #3 to determine. I would like to put this one on a stand and take my time to build it. Meanwhile a used engine in its place will get it rolling - just gotta find one. If I go that route, I will do some performance mods to eventually throw into my daily driver when the time comes. And If I do that, there will be a 4 speed behind it, as well

.

leathermang · #38 02-25-2011, 09:54 AM

People will tell you that I have long been convinced that I give the best advice.....

barry123400 · #39 02-25-2011, 05:06 PM

I doubt 360k on the engine if you can see hone marks pretty consistantly. Either rebuilt with new sleeves or another engine is probably in there.

On the otherhand I have never seen the bores on a 617 engine with about 350k on it. Maybe a member that has can comment if the honing marks where still present.

Although because of the non dependability of banking on whatever odometer reading one observes on these car does come into play as well. Many have far more miles than indicated.

mach0415 · #40 02-25-2011, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry123400

I doubt 360k on the engine if you can see hone marks pretty consistantly. Either rebuilt with new sleeves or another engine is probably in there.

On the otherhand I have never seen the bores on a 617 engine with about 350k on it. Maybe a member that has can comment if the honing marks where still present.

Although because of the non dependability of banking on whatever odometer reading one observes on these car does come into play as well. Many have far more miles than indicated.

Exactly, because everyone knows Mercedes 123 and 126 had absolutely no odometer gear issues....bwwah ha ha ha ha ha...

barry123400 · #41 02-26-2011, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach0415

Exactly, because everyone knows Mercedes 123 and 126 had absolutely no odometer gear issues....bwwah ha ha ha ha ha...

To compound this further most like myself purchased new diesels to pour the miles to. So it was not unusual to also have the odometers rolled back to keep the resale value high when newer than they are today.

This practice grows less with time as usually you can check the odometer readings better today. The digital odometer turnback unit is eight hundred dollars I heard once. So it is probably a car dealer only item.

larry perkins · #42 02-26-2011, 10:39 AM

it takes an average of 3000psi to push the sleeve from the sleeve bore in these diesel engines,highest i have seen is 4000psi all read on the guage on the press. i use to pound um out with a 12 pound sledge but made a second tool to fit the hydrolic press.
larry perkins

mach0415 · #43 02-26-2011, 12:01 PM

Thats good to know Larry. I have a press at my shop. Is there a link/pic to what type of adapter to use to keep from messing up the bore?

mach0415 · #44 03-04-2011, 08:57 PM

I had some of my students pull the engine to inspect it. Amazingly, as stated, the cylinder head combustion chambers are perfect. However, the 3rd piston was found to be in rougher shape (understatement) than previously thought. We put the short block on an engine stand and flipped it to pull the pan. A small chunk of ring was laying at the bottom. Here is what is left of the piston and rings. Surprisingly enough, the crankshaft is smooth, despite the scratches in the rod bearing, as shown. I am guessing the cap side is not as scratched, as the rod side bearing shell usually takes the beating on the power stroke.The cylinder sleeve did not look as bad as I thought it would. I did not have my camera at school to capture pics of the bore, but I am going to take some muriatic acid to it to get the aluminum smear off. I am not getting my hopes up. Of course, I will need to check for taper, out-of-roundness, etc to determine what I am going to do with this engine. I must say it would make a hell of a paper weight or a great boat anchor

. Tell me what you all think.

P.S. Is this evidence of ether use??? The other cylinders look okay, but I suppose cylinder 3 could have been at the right stroke at the right time for it to have been affected by ether, if indeed it was the cause.

Stretch · #45 03-05-2011, 03:06 AM

You have students to do the work? Wow!

Pictures of the sleeve please - I'd like to see what sort of damage a piston in that condition does...

...does this mean you are still considering the rebuild route?