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  #16  
Old 04-15-2011, 05:58 PM
79Mercy's Avatar
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You shouldn't have to remove any of that. However you might have to pop loose the tie rod or drag link to be able to drop the starter out on the ground, at least i do on my 76 300D.

Get a 10mm allen socket with a universal joint and some extensions and its not to bad of a job once you get in there.

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1985 300TD Turbo Euro-wagon
1979 280CE 225,200 miles
1985 300D Turbo 264,000 miles
1976 240D 190,000 miles
1979 300TD 220,000

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1976 300D 195,300 miles
1983 300D Turbo 175,000 miles

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  #17  
Old 04-15-2011, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79Mercy View Post
You shouldn't have to remove any of that. However you might have to pop loose the tie rod or drag link to be able to drop the starter out on the ground, at least i do on my 76 300D.

Get a 10mm allen socket with a universal joint and some extensions and its not to bad of a job once you get in there.
I just went out there to look at it again and I don't see what your talking about. The back of my starter is about 1-1.5 inches from touching the motor mount. Below it about 1 inch is the subframe. I can't imagine that will give me enough wiggle room to get the starter clear of the bell housing.

Does the 617 have a different starter or starter location?
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  #18  
Old 04-15-2011, 06:26 PM
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Another thing I notice is when I pull the gorilla knob from glow to start the salt shaker stops glowing. Is this correct?
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  #19  
Old 04-15-2011, 06:40 PM
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compression

let us in on the secret compression values.
larry perkins
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  #20  
Old 04-15-2011, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry perkins View Post
let us in on the secret compression values.
larry perkins

225
225
275
285

Since the engine won't start, these are obviously cold figures. Last time I said this a debate about hot vs cold numbers erupted. I realize there is a big difference but if you can't start the motor and simply what to know it's compressing air I think this is helpful.
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  #21  
Old 04-15-2011, 06:51 PM
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Go to a leak down test... including oil into the cylinder readings.. will help point to your problem / s .
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  #22  
Old 04-15-2011, 07:03 PM
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battery

bill,batterys will drive one up the wall,have you tried another battery that will start a diesel car. i fool with batteries a lot,even auto zone can check to see if the unit has the capacity for running the starter motor.
with the engine running for 20 seconds then stoping i do suspect that lack of fuel is what stopped it. one thing i do is place the feed line from the mechanical pump into a container with good diesel to isolate the tank,fuel lines as possible problems. if you are getting fuel to the pump with the suction line in the substitute fuel container and no start with a good battery then use a pair of needle nose vice grips(duck tape the jaws so it doesent harm the return line)and close off the return line ,try to start.
larry perkins lou ky
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  #23  
Old 04-15-2011, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billhard View Post
225
225
275
285

Since the engine won't start, these are obviously cold figures. Last time I said this a debate about hot vs cold numbers erupted. I realize there is a big difference but if you can't start the motor and simply what to know it's compressing air I think this is helpful.

There seem to be a number of borderline specs here: low compression, slow starter rotation, long time sitting etc. Here are some further suggestions:

1. Does it have a block heater? (Probably not in southern CA) but if it does, plug it in for a couple of hours and the temp will rise enough that the gauge rises from the stop a bit. That's a little step in the right direction.

2. Always use wide open throttle for stubborn starters. That ensures a full charge of air and max temp at TDC. Remove the air filter completely is another good idea until the thing starts.

3. If you have a spare battery, double up with jumpers. Have someone check the voltage when cranking -- it will drop but not a huge amount. The second battery will give a bit more current capacity.

4. Raise the idle stop . . . lots. If it starts again you won't lose it. Assume you know how to do that.

6. What did you do just before it started? If it was to bleed something, bleed it again.

7. Are you SURE your glow plugs are working? There are different ways to test this depending on year. Sometimes just a voltage drop whilst glowing is the most reliable, if you can get that. Each plug should show something like 1 V drop if IRC. When you said 'wired wrong', how so? It is pretty hard to wire them wrong (new or old).

8. If you are convinced fuel is getting to the cylinders, that video looks like you are trying to start with no glowplugs, for what it's worth. The fuel vapor you mentioned is some evidence that fuel is getting in the chambers. It just isn't getting hot enough, or there is no source of ignition to kick it off.
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  #25  
Old 04-15-2011, 11:33 PM
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If it ran for 20 seconds, I would think it should start again unless something catastrophic happened. Hold the accelerator half way & turn the fast idle control on the dash all the way to the left before starting and don't turn it down until the engine has run awhile and the temperature gets above 120 degrees. With my car I've never found throttle position to have any impact whatsoever on cranking time, but when cold, more fuel is definitely needed to keep it from quitting as soon as it starts to fire.

Has the battery suffered some deep discharges from all the start attempts? If so you might have to try a new battery entirely at least until you've got it starting easily again. I've noticed that connecting a good battery is often more successful than jumping or parallelling a bad battery with a good battery.

Yes, the glow plug indicator goes out while cranking to prevent additional voltage drop, but the glow plugs still glow.

BTW when I replaced my starter, my friend and I removed the air cleaner assembly and lifted the starter out from above. Having two people helps a lot....one to help guide it from underneath...that thing was heavy!
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  #26  
Old 04-17-2011, 11:30 AM
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Yesterday:

Removed glow plugs, screwed them all together in series and laying them atop a board on the valve cover brought them to glow with gorilla knob. They each got bright red so I am going to say glow is good.

Bought fresh diesel, drained fuel filter housing and fuel lines. New fuel filters again, bled system again per FSM and then further until fuel flowed at each IP line injector connection. Running on small tank of fresh diesel now not main tank. Verified all lines are tight and connections sealed.

Took the battery to Batteries plus were they tested it under load. The max amps it would put out were about 575. Bought a new 800amp battery.

So now I tried to fire it up again. The starter was turning the motor over faster but it still wouldn’t fire.

Next I tried to tow start the car and it did start but would barley stay running, seemed like perhaps not all cylinders were burning. Ok let’s go a little faster still nothing until a bad noise starts. At first I thought something in the drive shaft was coming loose like the drive shaft was not spinning true and perhaps hitting some part of the car. Remember this is under tow about 25MPH so I put the clutch in shifted to neutral figuring I would have to check out the drive shaft before continuing. The noise continued as I tried to signal the tow vehicle to stop, our phone connection dropped thanks Sprint. Anyway the noise suddenly stopped, my passenger and I both said holy crap those bad noises were actually the motor running. Fearing something bad internally wrong I towed it home. You can crank motor with starter and still sounds like it did before, no bad sounds. I have no idea what to think.

Spent the rest of the afternoon drowning my sorrows in beer.

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