Non Mercedes question - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #1 04-03-2011, 05:21 AM

My formula ford autocross car has a leak in the curved seal in the pan gasket under the front main bearing. It is leaking oil, not hard oil pressure leak but splashing oil I suppose, but it is coming out fast enough I do not feel I can run it that way and risk oiling the course.

My first reaction is to pull the motor and fix it correctly, but on further pondering I am wondering if I could cut away some of the edge of the cork gasket and clean the face of the block and the pan and seal it up with something from the outside enough to keep the splashing oil contained?

any thoughts on this?

It will be a job to pull it out and fix correctly and my first fun event is today and second but points paying event is in two weeks.

Yikes!

layback40 · #2 04-03-2011, 06:28 AM

Tom.
Please tell me if I am wrong. I think your motor is based on a ford cortina cross flow.
If it is, I played with them when I was younger.
The gasket sounds like the pan gasket. You maybe able to loosen the sump & wipe the gasket clean. Some petrol or brake clean would help. Then some RTV silicone squeezed in using the tube nozzle and bolt it back up. Let it cure. Then keep your fingers crossed !!

t walgamuth · #3 04-03-2011, 07:28 AM

You are correct. It is also known as the Kent motor. It is the 1.6 pushrod engine which originally came as a 900cc unit or 1000cc in the ford anglia. This 1.6 version was offered in the US in our Pinto.

Your description sounds promising except that in a FF the "pan" is substituted for with a fairly massive aluminum piece which acts as a collector for the dry sump system. The front motor mounts are also bolted to it and it also is bolted to the adaptor which takes the place of the bell housing and from which the rear transaxle and suspension all hangs.

There is a belly pan which is welded to the bottom frame rails about 1/8 inch below the "pan" which I don't believe will allow it to drop down any if one could get it all detached enough to drop down.

I'll have to go to the FF forum and verify what is possible mechanically, but In the mean time I was hoping there might be a clean up and seal from the outside possibility which folks here might know about.

Thanks for the suggestion! I will see if it might be possible to use your method in this case. Avoiding pulling the motor would be an excellent thing If it is possible.

layback40 · #4 04-03-2011, 09:51 AM

Its good to know my memory is ok! They put a 1300 & 1600 in the cortina & escort I think. There was also a 1500 lotus motor in some of the cortinas. Its the same formula ford that was about in the 1960's by the sounds of things. Cant understand why they didnt upgrade to the RS2000 motor. They were a big thing in rallying back then.
As I recall that gasket is a compounded cork thing, sort of crumbs of cork held together with some sort of black rubber.
If you over tighten, it will split & so leak.
It has crank case pressure only behind it. I cant remember where the oil feed to the top of the motor goes though.
I am sure we wreaked a few gaskets by over tightening.
These days I would be inclined to coat both sides of the gasket with RTV & not over tighten it. If the gasket starts to ooze out from between the surfaces its probably too tight.
If the 2 surfaces are not true (warped pan say), it is a PITA to get it to seal properly.
I dont think the crank case breathing on those motors was that good so chances are that under load there is a little bit of pressure in the crank case. Otherwise I would suggest cleaning it & putting a layer (1/4") of RTV over where the gasket is, like a band aid. You can try but i doubt it will hold for long.

vstech · #5 04-03-2011, 10:29 AM

if you can get it clean, rtv ULTRA blue should stick.
Are you sure it's not a crack in the pan? if so, clean again, and use jbweld...
any chance of some pics of it?

Codifex Maximus · #6 04-03-2011, 03:05 PM

Those Ford engines are one of the reasons I now drive Mercedes.

I did like their 289, 302, and 351C engines though.

t walgamuth · #7 04-03-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

if you can get it clean, rtv ULTRA blue should stick.
Are you sure it's not a crack in the pan? if so, clean again, and use jbweld...
any chance of some pics of it?

I can see it coming out of this place. (Course, it could be leaking somewhere else too but I don't think so!).

OK, blue rtv and check crankcase breathing. Good ideas.

Thanks, guys!

t walgamuth · #8 04-03-2011, 07:32 PM

Layback you are a genius!

The "crankcase ventilation" seems to be provided by a tube connecting the crankcase via the former dipstick hole to the valve cover.......WRONG DOG BREATH....(Right?). This arrangement does not vent the crank case as the valve cover is directly connected to the crankcase. It needs to go to the intake or to the atmosphere to provide crankcase pressure relief, right?

Now I need to go ponder where the original designers contemplated it going. I will also ask the FF guys on that forum.

I also cleaned up the outside of the leaking area and bought a new tube of the blue RTV.

Thanks very much guys!

layback40 · #9 04-03-2011, 10:21 PM

The original crank case ventilation had a rubber tube going from the valve cover, that was a tin can, to the inlet manifold just below the carbie. It had a PCV valve in it & they used to always block up. When modifying the motors it was common to fit 2x 45mm twin throat side draft webber carbies with no balance tube between the throats. Often an alloy valve cover would also be fitted. The problem was then what to do for a vent. A system like what they do on a 60x was common.

What fuel supply system does yours have?

If where you have the leak, the gasket is squeezed out, you could try loosening a few sump bolts & pushing it back in & then re-tightening the bolts. It may just ooze strait out again.

Chas H · #10 04-03-2011, 11:54 PM

I've seen FF engines with dry sump vented back to the oil tank, or at least a catch can.

Skid Row Joe · #11 04-03-2011, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Layback you are a genius!

The "crankcase ventilation" seems to be provided by a tube connecting the crankcase via the former dipstick hole to the valve cover.......WRONG DOG BREATH....(Right?). This arrangement does not vent the crank case as the valve cover is directly connected to the crankcase. It needs to go to the intake or to the atmosphere to provide crankcase pressure relief, right?

Now I need to go ponder where the original designers contemplated it going. I will also ask the FF guys on that forum.

I also cleaned up the outside of the leaking area and bought a new tube of the blue RTV.

Thanks very much guys!

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