Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-21-2011, 04:27 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
Brake band relining - a question for the adventurous

G'day All,

I'm in the middle of rebuilding my 722.118 transmission and I'm trying to find a way of making the cost of doing this a bit lower.

The majority of the rebuild cost comes from the brake bands. I've got a very reasonable quote for just over 150 euros a piece.

I'm now asking a company in the UK (close to me you see) if they can reline them for me - perhaps they can do it more cheaply...

But I was thinking how about relining yourself?

The gurus on tractor forums seem to do it all the time (well in between a lot of beer drinking) on their brakes.

Has anyone got any experience of this?

(Hilarious cautionary tales are also welcome!)

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-21-2011, 04:43 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
I thought I'd better add my own cautionary note:-

I guess it is quite likely that the brake bands of this vintage contain asbestos - so you would need to have a nice safe clean environment to remove the old lining.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-21-2011, 07:05 AM
layback40's Avatar
Not Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Victoria Australia - down under!!
Posts: 4,023
There is a significant chance if you use the old backing you could end up with cracks. Many bands fail by cracking instead of friction material ware. Any place you have a component that is thin & flexes is likely to fatigue. Best replace. Did the clutch packs come out easy?
__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-21-2011, 11:00 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
There is a significant chance if you use the old backing you could end up with cracks. Many bands fail by cracking instead of friction material ware. Any place you have a component that is thin & flexes is likely to fatigue. Best replace. Did the clutch packs come out easy?
I haven't done the clutch packs yet.

I've got side tracked looking for parts and painting the car whilst the weather is good. When I'm done with the rebuild I'll post a report (part of a deal I have with a very helpful chap).
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-21-2011, 12:02 PM
Admiral-Third World Fleet
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central FL
Posts: 3,069
Army -

When you do the clutch packs , are you going to dig all the way to the bottom of the can and replace the o-ring?

Rick
__________________
80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-21-2011, 02:21 PM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
Army -

When you do the clutch packs , are you going to dig all the way to the bottom of the can and replace the o-ring?

Rick
In a perfect world I'd like to account for every seal I've got in my rebuild kit and make sure that each bit is changed. I tried that for my engine rebuild but quickly found I had bits for an OM617a as well... so I'll have to see how it goes. At least I've got a copy of the manual now so I know how I'm meant to put it all back together.

Er sorry - I'm waffling - ideally yes is my answer.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-22-2011, 09:09 AM
Admiral-Third World Fleet
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central FL
Posts: 3,069
Army-

I didn't rebuild a 722.1x completely (just the front pump), but on the 722.3xx I did, those seals were not included in the kit. You may want to check and see that you have them... if you are going to all that trouble may as well do it all to be safe. And I don't think that's covered in that manual....

Rick
__________________
80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-22-2011, 11:36 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: central Texas
Posts: 17,277
[QUOTE=Army;2704386]...Er sorry - I'm waffling - ideally yes is my answer./QUOTE]
LOL....
If I were facing tearing into one of these transmissions... my knees would be weak....
Well, tearing into it I would not be afraid of ... I love to take stuff apart to see how it was made..
PUTTING IT BACK TOGETHER and expecting it to work correctly... that would make my knees weak...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-22-2011, 11:55 AM
Admiral-Third World Fleet
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central FL
Posts: 3,069
Quote:
I'm in the middle of rebuilding my 722.118 transmission
....you only THINK you are in the middle of it.....actually you only just started to screw it up....
__________________
80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-22-2011, 12:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: central Texas
Posts: 17,277
' Gurus on Tractor Forums ' ... you need to get yourself a tractor..
or stop visiting those forums..
LOL
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-22-2011, 12:49 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Das Sturm Uberdoktor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Palm Springs, CA.
Posts: 2,670
Army,

The bands in the 722.120 are bonded, not riveted, so I assumed the 722.118 would be similar????

The bands are quite pricey, at around $300.00 USD from some suppliers. Here is what I did to cut the costs a bit.

I went to my local salvage yard and pulled the pans from several 722.120's until I found one with a nice looking surface on the drums and bands. Then, I bought the entire 722.120 for $50.00 USD and used the bands out of it. They had been replaced at one time. In fact, you can find many old MBZ's in the wreckers with rebuilt transmissions.

Hope this helps...Robert
__________________
Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-22-2011, 01:48 PM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
' Gurus on Tractor Forums ' ... you need to get yourself a tractor..
or stop visiting those forums..
LOL
Funny you should say that - I wanted to get one because at least if I was driving a tractor I wouldn't feel so frustrated when stuck behind some idiot pootling along at 15 km/h...

...we settled on a 300D because there's a bit more room for the wife and the children too.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-22-2011, 01:50 PM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
....you only THINK you are in the middle of it.....actually you only just started to screw it up....
Well I hope that's not the case - time will tell.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-22-2011, 01:57 PM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Bert View Post
Army,

The bands in the 722.120 are bonded, not riveted, so I assumed the 722.118 would be similar????

The bands are quite pricey, at around $300.00 USD from some suppliers. Here is what I did to cut the costs a bit.

I went to my local salvage yard and pulled the pans from several 722.120's until I found one with a nice looking surface on the drums and bands. Then, I bought the entire 722.120 for $50.00 USD and used the bands out of it. They had been replaced at one time. In fact, you can find many old MBZ's in the wreckers with rebuilt transmissions.

Hope this helps...Robert
Hi Robert,

Thanks for the tip - the bands are indeed bonded.

I posted the damage shots in a different thread (722.118 brake band advice req'd)

But here are the pictures







Unfortunately the way in which things are over here the whole buying up transmissions method would prove to be more expensive than just buying the parts - a used autobox goes for about 300 euros a piece (often more).

In short you need to be filling up containers of old gearboxes and differentials and sending them to me to sell - and I need to send back the containers full of Euro head lamps, bumpers and big thick heavy manual OM617 flywheels for you to sell!
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-22-2011, 02:48 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Das Sturm Uberdoktor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Palm Springs, CA.
Posts: 2,670
Hmmm...

Maybe a forum member has a good used set of bands to sell????

__________________
Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page