upgrading to w124 or w210? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ashedd · #31 05-06-2011, 01:20 PM

Compared to other cars... the MB just doesn't seem natural or smooth. The shifters are notchy as hell. It's fun, just nothing special. I know there are a lot of manual MB's outside of the US, but the automatic's are just so smooth. Like it was meant to be. I also get sick of shifting gears after awhile, so I might not be a good source.

Most fun manual car I had, that seemed like everything was right in the world, '89 supercoupe.

Talk to winmutt if you want more info about a 5spd om603 as a daily driver.. mine just sits most the time.

babymog · #32 05-07-2011, 04:18 PM

I have to agree on the stick.

In a sporty car, fun to drive. In an economy car, better use of a small engine and better fuel mileage.

In a luxury car or daily driver, just doesn't seem to be natural. The turbo in these also makes for laggy shifts, which the automatic avoids because you don't lift the pedal to shift.

I love stickshift cars, but only the right ones. Even racing has pretty much all gone to automatics of some sort. The only thing I really would like in the 124, ... is another gear.

DieselDummy · #33 01-19-2013, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

The 4-speed in the 1987 300D is a 722.317 while the 1996 E300D has a 722.438. They are essentially identical but I believe the 722.3 will handle more power than the 722.4. Both are simple boxes that respond to throttle input, engine RPM, and vacuum levels to decide when to shift. In any case, at 300,000 miles the wear parts (clutch packs, etc.) and seals may be ready for a change.

Aside from changing filter and fluid every 30,000 miles or so, you will want to keep the vacuum system in good shape because the diesel engine has a complicated package of things designed to mimic a gasser's intake manifold vacuum. If the vacuum is not working correctly, the transmission won't shift properly. We can help you troubleshoot problems should you have any.

Starting in 1997, Mercedes went to an "electronic" 5-speed transmission. They had a few problems in the first year but nothing serious after that.

Jeremy

Jeremy,
Do you know what other trans with work in my 91 300d 2.5t ??? Is it 90-92 300d only or will about any diesel or standard trans work/bolt in???

Thanks

Jeremy5848 · #34 01-20-2013, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselDummy

Jeremy,
Do you know what other trans with work in my 91 300d 2.5t ??? Is it 90-92 300d only or will about any diesel or standard trans work/bolt in???

Thanks

I don't know whether your 5-cylinder turbodiesel got the 722.3 or the 722.4 automatic transmission. The 722.3 will handle more power. Either one will physically fit in the car. If you check EPC it will tell you which transmission was put in your car by the factory.

Other than the 722.3/722.4 question, AFAIK any automatic transmission from a W124 diesel will fit any other W124 diesel. Note that cars with the OM603 6-cylinder turbodiesel require the 722.3. A 722.4 will have a limited lifetime in that car. Thus, a transmission from my 1995 E300 (722.4) should not be put in a 1987 300D Turbo (requires a 722.3 to handle more ponies).

I believe that the 6-cylinder gasoline engines used the same transmission as the diesels but I'm not sure they were totally identical. You need to talk to someone who is more familiar with the gasoline W124s.

Jeremy

Jeremy5848 · #35 01-20-2013, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ya Mar

Thanks for all the tips!

Jeremy, That's interesting about the transmissions.

If only I could find an 87 w124 300TD station wagon in a MANUAL transmission!!!

Has anyone tried to do a conversion??

I believe manual transmission conversions have been done. The W201 (190D/E) were available in the states with a 5-speed stick; the transmission can be moved to a W124. The W124 was available in Europe with a manual transmission so all of the bits and bobs should be available on, for example, eBay.de. Obviously it would help if you know what you're doing (I don't!) when it comes to transmission conversions. Whether it would be practical to drive is another matter, as others have written.

The W210 is a far superior car in many ways, just as the 124 is better than the 123. However the 124 is easier to work on than the 210 just as the 123 is easier to work on than the 124. The newer cars are more electronic and less mechanical and have more accessories to get in the way. Older, simpler cars are almost always easier for the shade tree mechanic but that doesn't necessarily make them "better."

It's a very personal decision....I liked my 123 but it was a tractor compared to the 124. My wife's 210 is nicer in many ways but I much prefer working on the 124. Junkyard parts for a 123 or a 124 are common while I rarely see a 210 at the local Pick-N-Pull.

Jeremy

pimpernell · #36 01-20-2013, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ya Mar

Hello All,

I currently have 2 w123's. A 300D Euro import 4spd sedan and a 300TD station wagon.

I've been fixing up the station wagon to sell or trade. It has 170k miles and I'm in the process of repairing rust. I'm not sure what it's worth. Any thoughts?

I've had an offer to do a partial trade for a 1996 w210 E300 diesel, non turbo, with 180k. Apparently one of the perch springs has been replaced but not the other one. It has some body rust. The owner wants 4k.

I also know somebody with an 87 300TD with 140k miles on a rebuilt engine and he's asking 5k. His car has no rust and seems to have been very well cared for.

What should I do??

I love the simplicity of the w123 for mechanical work and the reliability of the major components. I'd also like to continue to do 90% of the mechanical work on my next Mercedes. But on the other hand, I wouldn't mind a model that is a bit more refined than the w123 for highway speeds.

Can I find the reliability of the 617 engine in a w124 or w210?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

My 96 E300d was a great car, but in the end, a failed spring perch put it down for the count. The fact that one perch failed should give you fair warning that the other side might be ready to let go. I was lucky in that the perch let go while the car was parked in front of my home. Priced out making a repair to both perches, and the price came in at about $2500. The only other thing wrong with the car was the SRS light had come on. To have that repaired would have run about $1000. With all that considered, I ended up letting it go. As much as I loved working on the car, it has gotten to a point where my mind tells me I can do anything, and my body tells me otherwise. Good luck with whatever you decide.

DieselDummy · #37 01-20-2013, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

I don't know whether your 5-cylinder turbodiesel got the 722.3 or the 722.4 automatic transmission. The 722.3 will handle more power. Either one will physically fit in the car. If you check EPC it will tell you which transmission was put in your car by the factory.

Other than the 722.3/722.4 question, AFAIK any automatic transmission from a W124 diesel will fit any other W124 diesel. Note that cars with the OM603 6-cylinder turbodiesel require the 722.3. A 722.4 will have a limited lifetime in that car. Thus, a transmission from my 1995 E300 (722.4) should not be put in a 1987 300D Turbo (requires a 722.3 to handle more ponies).

I believe that the 6-cylinder gasoline engines used the same transmission as the diesels but I'm not sure they were totally identical. You need to talk to someone who is more familiar with the gasoline W124s.

Jeremy

Thank you sir! Sorry what is the EPC???
I started my own thread to not highjack this one, thanks for the input!
Optional trans for 91 300d 2.5t

Jeremy5848 · #38 01-20-2013, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselDummy

Thank you sir! Sorry what is the EPC???
I started my own thread to not highjack this one, thanks for the input!
Optional trans for 91 300d 2.5t

EPC or Electronics Parts Catalog, EPC-net Online, a subscription service of Daimler-Benz. The USA version is free to US residents. You have to provide a credit card with a US address to prove residency but they don't charge anything for the subscription. You can put in your VIN and get listings of all parts in the car; you can enter a part number and see all cars it will fit.

Jeremy

DieselDummy · #39 01-20-2013, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

EPC or Electronics Parts Catalog, EPC-net Online, a subscription service of Daimler-Benz. The USA version is free to US residents. You have to provide a credit card with a US address to prove residency but they don't charge anything for the subscription. You can put in your VIN and get listings of all parts in the car; you can enter a part number and see all cars it will fit.

Jeremy

Thx for that. No luck getting registered yet! Doesn't seem to like Firefox and IE couldn't find the site during the final step of sign-up.
Will try later.

Lambrettaman · #40 01-20-2013, 07:18 PM

I have a 123 and a 210. Both wagons. Diesel and gasser, respectively. The 210 is a remarkable vehicle and is absolutely huge inside. The shape of the rear is such that it doesn't have the slope of its predecessor and successor. The 123 is down right tiring on the highway on a long trip. We do a 15 hour one way and several 8 hour trips annually. The 210 is a dream on these trips. However, because it is all canbus and electronic, it is not going to be as diy as the 124.

Jeremy5848 · #41 01-20-2013, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselDummy

Thx for that. No luck getting registered yet! Doesn't seem to like Firefox and IE couldn't find the site during the final step of sign-up.
Will try later.

Everyone has occasional problems getting connected to EPC even after many years of being a "subscriber." I don't know if it's related to the use of Java. I just tried to connect and it said "Unable to launch the application" so it's not you. The only thing I've tried that seems to help is to have the absolute minimum of other applications open at the same time you try to use EPC. The browser doesn't seem to matter, I usually use Firefox but can also use IE when necessary.

Jeremy