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  #16  
Old 05-19-2011, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
The fact that the Idiot Manager thinks he can "Fix" the Problem by "Forcing"
the cross-thread proves he's no concept of what he's dealing with.
These are my thoughts exactly. Thanks for the new contact ci.
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2011, 08:34 PM
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I believe Helicoils remove less of the surrounding metal than is needed for Timecerts.

I am guessing both are dependent on drilling the hole straight to begin with; in the case of the Helicoils the hole also has to be tapped straight.

If he wants to spend enough time he can get some sort of restitution.

If you take someone to Court you have the burden of proof. Besides having done it yourself the Garage could say that another Garage could have done the job.
The only thing is that you could cost them some money by making someone from their Business have to come into Court; but, that might not win your case.
On your side of the case it sounds like it would be easy to get some video tape of them not torquing the Wheel Bolt and even using an Impact Wrench on them.
I could see Myself in court asking their representative what they used to Torque the Bolts Properly and then running the Video Tape showing their poor practices.


You would have more luck standing in front of their place of business with a sign saying the you "I believe Goodyear Damaged My Mercedes" and have the Bolts to show any one who needs more info.
If they start losing money they might be willing to deal with you more reasonably.

You have already done part of what the Court would ask you to do which is to go back to the place where you had the job done and ask them to fix it.
However, if have good reason to feel that they are not skilled enough to fix it properly or feel they should pay you should not let them work on your Car.

So my thought is that if they do not have enough skill to Bolts safely where will they some up with enough skill to repair the threads.

I took an past Girl Friends Car to have Tires put on and was shocked when the called the Manager who came out and used a Torque Wrench on the Lug Nuts and then signed off on the Paper work that he had done so. CA is also one of the leading States for Law Suites.
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  #18  
Old 05-19-2011, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
How could it be possible or practical? Redo what the shop did all the time?



Cut them some slack. I have had bad jobs done by Costco. They crossed thread a lug ( not MBZ ) and I snapped it when I tried to change a tire. It is next to impossible to prove the mistake was made by them. I just got a new one and replaced it myself and moved on. Most shops are making an honest living and mistakes were made. Even pros in the racing circuit can make mistake. You do not want it to happen to you but s$$t happens. Unless you do everything yourself, live on the land otherwise you have to trust other people and delegate.

The OP can talk to the shop but if they balk then you just have to accept it.
The issue is over who is liable for the mistakes; not if People make mistakes.
In this case it is an expensive mistake.
If it ends up Hubs need replacing the cost of parts and labor is going to shoot up fast.
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2011, 09:15 PM
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Please enlighten me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
The issue is over who is liable for the mistakes; not if People make mistakes.
In this case it is an expensive mistake.
If it ends up Hubs need replacing the cost of parts and labor is going to shoot up fast.
Can you enlighten me on how to prove the cross threading is done by the shop? If you take it back the next day, then may be they will admit it. I am not a lawyer and I am sure they will wiggle out of any liabilities.
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  #20  
Old 05-19-2011, 10:11 PM
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It's hard to tell from the pic, but the threads don't look damaged like they would from being cross-threaded. Bent from overtorquing maybe, but the threads appear intact.

I'd get a new set of bolts, replace the two that you've got out with the proper torque in order to relieve stress on the other three, then work on those one at a time.

If the new/replacement bolts thread in okay then they probably weren't "cross threaded."

Maybe try a micro-torch and some heat on the bolts. Be cautious with applying torque to a heated bolt since it may shear, and then you'd really be up a creek.

Possibly try an impact gun with slowly increasing torque settings with the wheel in the air (in gear, park brake fully engaged). The weight off the wheel may change the tension on the bolt.

All four tires or only one? After four years even having the manager consider helping is not too bad.
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2011, 02:22 AM
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Looking in the PNP web site, a hub for a car is $16.48 plus tax. hate to think what the dealer price is. won`t know is the threads are compromised until the wheel is removed though.

In the first post, he said he had his tires mounted "a long time ago". no reference as to years etc...

so I see both sides of the issue. OP knows what has been done to his car, and when. the shop on the other hand is right to say it could have been done some where else if a few yrs has gone by, and don`t want to be stuck repairing some one elses screw up.

If that were my car and I got lip service for the shop, that would be it for me, I would be out of there and doing the repair my self. I would be afraid of the goons screwing up something else.

when I have tires replaced, I remove the wheels and drop them off to be mounted. works everytime, and they are always torqued down properly.

Charlie
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  #22  
Old 05-20-2011, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
Can you enlighten me on how to prove the cross threading is done by the shop? If you take it back the next day, then may be they will admit it. I am not a lawyer and I am sure they will wiggle out of any liabilities.
When you go to Court for a Lawsuit or Small Claims Court you do have to prove your case but they type of proof needed is not the same as a Murder Case.
A good example of this is that the Goldman’s won their Lawsuit against O.J. Simpson.
So the Burden of proof is different.

I would just say the facts. Had care worked on at ShopX have Paper work to prove that and what work was done.

I did not touch Wheel Bolts until...and this is what I found.
Show those bent Bolts.

(Bring a Print Out of the Manual showing what the Torque is supposed to be). And explain that the Factory recommended Torque could not have bent the Wheel Bolts.

If you took that Video Tape I recommend of the using the Impact Wrench on Peoples Wheel Bolts/Nuts this would be the time to submit it. It is proof that they habitually are not Torquing to Factory specs.
You are showing that they are routinely negligent.

I would explain that I have no interest in damaging my Own Car and I do not own an Impact Wrench (if that is true) and I did not damage my own Car.

Who ever is representing the Shop is going to say they you could have I could have done the damage after they did their work.

If the Representative of the Shop can be questioned you get to ask him why he is not Torquing to the Factory Spec and get to ask which He or She thinks is safer and why if Mercedes and other Car makers say they should be Torque why don't they do that.

So now it us up to the Judge or Jury to decide. And, yes there is a chance you could not win your case.

So it is not just you saying you did not ruin your Car and them saying you did.

There is no 100% guarantee on any Court Case.
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  #23  
Old 05-20-2011, 09:33 AM
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Those lug-bolts are a very poor design. They may not have been crossthreaded. If they were simply too tight, or even just corroded from long-term inactivity (quite common with alloy wheels bolted to iron hubs with steel bolts) the long neck between the hex and sholder may not allow sufficient torque to remove the bolts intact.
Several years ago, I needed to remove a wheel on a friend's '87 300SE. Two of the bolts wouldn't come out and when I tried a breaker-bar, the hex-heads simply twisted off, leaving the shoulders holding the wheel. Once I drilled the shoulders off the bolts and removed the wheel, the threaded stubs came right out of the hub with no thread damage.
So try some new bolts and see if maybe your hubs are still OK.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #24  
Old 05-20-2011, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro View Post
Those lug-bolts are a very poor design. They may not have been crossthreaded. If they were simply too tight, or even just corroded from long-term inactivity (quite common with alloy wheels bolted to iron hubs with steel bolts) the long neck between the hex and sholder may not allow sufficient torque to remove the bolts intact.
Several years ago, I needed to remove a wheel on a friend's '87 300SE. Two of the bolts wouldn't come out and when I tried a breaker-bar, the hex-heads simply twisted off, leaving the shoulders holding the wheel. Once I drilled the shoulders off the bolts and removed the wheel, the threaded stubs came right out of the hub with no thread damage.
So try some new bolts and see if maybe your hubs are still OK.

Happy Motoring, Mark
After the fix were the new Bolts installed with A Never-seeze type compound on the threads and shoulder?
Even Grease would help prevent the problem.
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  #25  
Old 05-20-2011, 11:42 AM
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'Allo ?

I'm a Slackard,Procrastinator,"Water Always Runs Downhill" sort of Guy,AND
Life's Too Short as it is.

Call the P.CFO,CEO's office and let them know THEY F.U.ed your wheels AND
you expect them to cover the cost of your repairs.
(BUT, not at Goodyear)

They,Goodyear, don't want people like us Blogging about how Lousy their
auto service is for the next 20 years.
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Cross thread on 300SD .. Help-screenhunter_01-may.-20-11.35.jpg  
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  #26  
Old 05-20-2011, 11:59 AM
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I need tires for my old 220S. I've decided to take off the wheels and bring them to the shop to mount and balance the tires. I'll put them back on with a t-wrench and no cursing.
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  #27  
Old 05-20-2011, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
After the fix were the new Bolts installed with A Never-seeze type compound on the threads and shoulder?
Even Grease would help prevent the problem.
I have heard some advise to never grease or lube lug bolts or nuts. My compromise is to lube the threads, but not the shoulder, then hand-tighten. Most vehicles don't use the troublesome extended-neck bolts like the ones mentioned here.
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  #28  
Old 05-20-2011, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro View Post
I have heard some advise to never grease or lube lug bolts or nuts. My compromise is to lube the threads, but not the shoulder, then hand-tighten.
That's what I do, too. It works for me; I've never had one loosen up, and they come out much easier.

One issue with lubing the threads is the torque specs probably assume dry threads. That means when you torque to the spec you'll actually be applying more clamping force than intended. I don't consider lug nut torque values especially critical, but this does suggest you probably shouldn't overtorque them (as most people tend to) after applying lube.

I've also had cars where the lug bolts penetrated into the brake drum, and I could see there being brake contamination issues there if you really glopped up the lugs with grease.
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  #29  
Old 05-20-2011, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Orv View Post
.....One issue with lubing the threads is the torque specs probably assume dry threads....
I have researched this in the past....and what I found was that the standard in automotive work is the assumption that the threads to be torqued will be ' clean and lightly oiled '......This has been discussed in the archives also...
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  #30  
Old 05-21-2011, 08:41 PM
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You need new hubs. Cross threading has destroyed them.

For future reference, always ask that the lugs be hand tightened with a torque wrench. If you have one, put it in the trunk at the right torque setting with the right socket (85ft/lb for me) and tell them it is there.

In the parking lot, before leaving the shop, test every lug bolt.

There is nothing more infuriating that getting a flat tire somewhere and not being able to change it. You will be forced to call a tow truck, and depending on where you are and what your insurance covers, it can be very expensive.

I have learned all of this the hard way.
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