It may be a felony, but that certainly doesn't mean anyone will be going to jail. Most likely they will make a deal for some minor offense an pay a fine.

The point is the Criminal cost Money out of jail and Money in Jail. But,
when there in Jail they only get to victimize each other.

They have given up on reahabing Criminals.

The only way to reduce the cost of Crime is to deal with the problem when the Criminals are Young and not let up on it as long as the behavior does not change.

Then there is the Parents of the Young Criminals. If the Parents cannot curb their Kids the Kids need to be removed from their care or some sort of action against the Parents is needed.

Childern were protected better when I was a kid.
What ever issues I have with my own Parents they were not Substance Abusers or Criminals and they made a effort possible to keep me out of trouble.
Everywhere I went Adults were there to keep you inline.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

We have a veneer of Civilization.

 

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Of course, the same thing would happen in the 1950s if you beat on someone for being the wrong color, or not seeming quite heterosexual enough, or not belonging to the right social group.

Personally I'm glad we've moved away from vigilante justice. It was used far more often to enforce social norms than to actually prevent crime.

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1981 Mercedes 300TD, 1994 Honda Civic Del Sol
http://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-us/67195.pnghttp://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-us/103885.png

When I was a kid, the local cops told my father similar things; then they went off and committed their own crimes.

Were I grew up in Orange County as near as I could tell there was no particular Ethnic, Racial or other group that I know of for the Police to pick on in the area where I lived. It was a White Lower Middle Classed Blue Collar area of newly built Housing Tracks.

Although they came from different parts of the US the people who lived there at least outwardly had similar Ethics and morals.
The people I knew just wanted to work and take care of their Families.
Children were expected not to do anything that would disrupted that world the Adults were trying to make.

No one in the area I lived in or any of the Schools died a Violent Death caused by another Person.

In the 18 years I grew up there I remember hearing of 1 Burglary. Up until around 1962-1963 the Front Doors of my Neighbors’ House were not locked.

So whatever bad can be said about the Law and Justice back in the 1950s it is clear that on the whole it worked better than what we have now.
Example: In the Olden Days if the Police saw a know Junky driving a Car, they would pull that Person over (mainly to harass them) and search the Car. If they were found with a trunk full of Heroin that person was going to get a long Jail term. And, the Public feeling at the time was the Police had done a good job.

If the above happened now the Person would be released because of the lack of Probable Cause to pull the Car over and that would render the Heroin as illegally obtained evidence.
The Officers who pulled the person over would be vilified.
The Law in the above story was upheld the individuals Rights despite the fact that the actual Evidence showed that he was a danger to the Community.

These days the Haroin in the above story could easily have been a Trunk load of Explosives and the Person would have been released.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

As long as you were part of the white middle class majority, and held popular political opinions, it was a utopia. If you weren't...well, the police were free to single you out for mistreatment or worse.

I happen to think people who aren't in those categories deserve to be treated well, too, but I realize there are still a lot of people around who don't agree. Naturally, those people dislike organizations like the ACLU that exist to protect the rights of people whose opinions, social status, or ethnic makeup put them in the minority. I've noticed there's a lot of nostalgia for McCarthyism, in particular, lately.

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1981 Mercedes 300TD, 1994 Honda Civic Del Sol
http://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-us/67195.pnghttp://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-us/103885.png

...and as long as your business didn't miss a protection payment.

Most of the Middle Classed People I knew wanted everyone in the country to have a similar life style; but they did not want to give/hand it to them.

I lived through the change over to what is called a more diverse society.

I remember during the 1960s the Folks who were not being treated well literally saying (many times on the TV) "Keep the Pigs out of or neighborhood; when don't want them here". By the 1970s (I the area LA County where I live) they were screaming that they were not getting enough Police protection because they were now victimized (and often killed) by the numerous and ever growing Gangs.
The old saying "be careful what you wish for" seems to be true. (It became a political expedient to give the above Folks what they wanted even though it turned out not to be good for them.)

The problem is in doing the above they did not share in the "Utopia"
you were speaking of but degenerated the Utopia.

Unbiased observation time: Since things have changed would you say the trend in our society has gone more Ghetto or Middle classed? Or having grown up in the New Society can you even tell the difference?

If you think this is a White supremacist thing it is not. Being part Mexican I would be considered part a Untermensch.
　

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Our culture will persist in being a "no penalty" society until we have actually penalties for actions. Examples:

1. Kids are seldom allowed to fail a class.
2. Exploited Bankruptcy and Foreclosure
3. Crimes going unpunished or impractical methods that cost US.

Sure there are lots more...I had a parts car in which all the glass was busted out by kids as well recently. I bought the car for the engine so I am not crying, but I sure was upset about the principle of the matter.

The VERY least I would do is scare the hell out of them if I caught them. Ideally I'd beat the crap out of them...that said, I am not sure what I would do next. The car was not located at my home so retaliation is mostly a non-issue.

And about vigilante justice...I disagree:
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”
- Edmund Burke

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1987 300TDT - 195,000 (Original #14 head)
1993 190E 2.3 - 105,000
1981 300D - 250,000

I am more fearful of the police than the criminals. Lying to the police is a crime that will get you jail time when no other crime has been committed. Police are allowed to lie any time they want without repurcussion.

Police walk around armed and dangerous. Try carrying the same weapons or using them to defend yourself. You'll be put under the ground - by the police.

An attorney friend of mine defends criminals and notes that police arrest more for the money than to stop crime. In TN, drugs flow from west (ie Memphis) toward the ease and money flows back the other way. Guess in which direction of the interstate most of the stops are made...east to west seizing money. Part of the confiscated money goes to the police force that grabs it. Strange that the supposedly honorable people charged with protecting us from evils of drugs go after the money & let the drugs flow.

There have been many cases where proof arises that the wrong person was incarcerated. Instead of apologising and letting the person out, the authorities ignore the proof & keep the person locked up as long as possible. The police, DA and legal system have no integrity.

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

This frequently happens when you are innocent and you Plea Bargain the case because you think you are going to get convicted even though you are innocent. To do so you need to admit your are Guilty. Once you have done that they treat you as such.

I believe in General the Law Enforcement People have more integrity than the common Citizen.

Question: What have the Police done to you that makes you feel they are dangerous to you?

As far a lying to Police goes you can say nothing at all if you do not want to.

How many People in 1 year are shot or injured by Police compared to the ones shot or injured during a Crime?

If you want to carry your own Personal Firearm I believe that is still Legal in AZ as long as it is not canceled.

Remember the Police are as paranoid as you are. The only People they trust are other Police/Law Enforcement Officers.

One of my past Girl Friends was set to Jail and then to a Prison. One of the times I am waiting to Visit Her there is a Guy also waiting who had clearly from his Tattoos and Body Builder type body had been an Inmate himself at one time.
He was complaining about the how the Feds had Confiscated all of he Property (He was a Drug Dealer) when he was caught. Well that is at least one time the Law got it right.

The other issue is that People are against the Police because they themselves are involved with Drugs or other substance abuse; most often as users.
The Public abandons the Police because they are commenting crimes themselves and the Police do not trust them for that and take care of themselves.

I have been rousted by the Police myself a few times for what I believed was no good reason. I just maintained my composure and did not give the any bad attitude and they left.
5 people I have called Friends in the past have gone to Prison. I never got involved with the stuff that they did to get there so I have no issues with the Police.
I am not going to comment on the further.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I agree with this completely, and that's why I respectfully say that if this is "civilization" then I don't want it. We have civilization not simply when laws are obeyed, but when the enforcers do not overstep their bounds legally or the bounds of good citizenship. The last time I checked, in America, WE THE PEOPLE tell the government what it may or may not do to us, NOT the other way around. (At least that's what the Constitution says....)

As far as I'm concerned, the police are very greatly to be feared because we the people, when their job is supposed to be to protect US from the "bad guys" whomever they may be, have absolutely NO power to protect ourselves from them without facing severe consequences. Police abuse of power is a very real problem, because every liberty they take until it becomes commonplace and "expected" under the "life isn't always fair" clause, the closer we come to really losing all semblance of control over our own lives and our own rights.

I will cite for my example of this a subject that matters to most all of us: state troopers (that's what the highway patrol division of NC calls itself) abusing their power. HOW MANY TIMES have we gotten tickets for minor infractions that genuinely did not endanger any other person, no matter what they want to call it on paper --- all in the name of "keeping the roads safe" and "protecting the people" and all the rest that they come up with.

In the first place, limits are often artificially lowered. Just ask any professional witness highway engineer to testify as to the ACTUAL safe driving speed for a good driver on any given piece of the road, and I'd bet large sums of money if I had them, that he would testify that a driver could safely drive 10-20 mph faster than the limit without endangering anyone.

So, these public protectors blue-light us and ticket us and make our insurance go up at the slightest provocation in the name of safety. And yet, how many times have we seen them go flying past us doing at LEAST 10 over the limit, sometimes 20 and sometimes looking more like 25-30 faster than the limit? I see this happen very routinely --- and they are NOT visibly in pursuit of anyone or on police business. Last time I checked, in this state, emergency vehicle drivers are supposed to run lights and/or siren to justify their use of super-legal velocities or maneuvers. And yet, they routinely go speeding past at speeds that they tell US are dangerous to others, not on police business. They use their blue lights when they approach an intersection just so others will have to stop for them. If this isn't abuse of power, I don't know what is. And we the people, who pay their salaries and give them their power in the first place, are absolutely defenseless against them. We can't pull THEM over for breaking the same exact laws for the same exact reasons that we break them. This is not fair, this is not right, this is not civilized, and this is not legal. And yet there is no action that we can take, at least not one that will actually produce results, that isn't illegal. Don't tell me this is a better way to do things.

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will end up plowing for those who didn't." ~unknown

I will say in direct response to this sentence of Junkman's: that at least around here, we do at least still believe in the 2nd amendment, and we can technically carry the "same weapons" without penalty ---- provided, of course, we have a license if it is concealed. At least in NC, open carry is still legal without permit, though some small towns can make their own prohibitions if they so choose. Trying to use them of course is a different problem... it's possible to do so legally but only if you're already half dead and the opponent is still coming at you.

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~Michael S.~
Past cars:

1986 300SDL
1987 300SDL
1982 240D
1982 300SD


Current:

1987 300SDL

The Police gave me a Ticket because I violated a Law; I don't feel I endangered anyone. Now I vilify the Police for that?

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I vilify them not for catching me breaking a law, but for their power to not be caught breaking the exact same law.

Laws exist for a reason: because obedience of them is important for some material reason. By all possible logic, that material reason, particularly in the example I cited but also as a general principle, is just as material, just as important, just as life-critical for the police as it is for the civilians.

If they want to give me a ticket for breaking a law that I was guilty of breaking then that is fine. But as far as I am concerned, they only deserve my respect and should only be in that position if they comply to the same laws themselves. The police are not above the law, and yet they act like they are above it 9 times out of 10, and they are immune from accountability because we have no power or authority to stop it. It is wrong, but we lack the ability to make it right. This is a slippery slope.

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~Michael S.~
Past cars:

1986 300SDL
1987 300SDL
1982 240D
1982 300SD


Current:

1987 300SDL