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  #16  
Old 05-24-2011, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladfalat View Post
"No crank, No start" is redundant; I have yet to see an engine start with no crank. In the interest of brevity: "no crank," and "crank, no start," and add "start, no run."
don't start with me, I'm cranky... oh wait, I mean grumpy.

Wow folks, have a vodka and relax.
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  #17  
Old 05-24-2011, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladfalat View Post
I have yet to see an engine start with no crank.
That would be a function of your limited experience. (Assuming that "cranking" involves the starter.)
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  #18  
Old 05-24-2011, 09:03 AM
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I agree. My trade is computer repair (aka - fix Windows), and I constantly get a call about how to computer does nothing when they turn it on. I have to ask "When you hit the power button do you see any lights? Now is there anything on the screen?" Most of the time, they simply cannot browse the web because of an infection.

It is difficult to communicate in a way that someone else may be able to understand...especially if they have less knowledge than you on the topic.
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  #19  
Old 05-24-2011, 11:22 AM
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How about: turn key won't run. I have no idea why and haven't taken any time to consider how it normally works only that I can't drive it and I want someone to tell me how to fix it on the cheap so all will be well with the world.

Spelll chek iddn't shew enythin, not even punctuateon errs.
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  #20  
Old 05-24-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
I wish everyone posted here is concise and to the point. It does not happen like this in the real world, especially in Internet forum. All the experts just need to probe for more info to help. It is a fact of life. Sometimes they even do not list the car make, year and model and expect the experts to read their minds.

Does not turn over, crank, fire, start, could mean different things to different people. You can put a sticker at the top but I doubt it would be read. Just ask them to calm down and explain what actually happen or not happen.

I will rest my case.
x2.

Basically the concept here is to ask new forum members to restrict their questions to a specific formula to reduce irritation of standing forum members? The next person who actually thinks such a rule would realistically be followed raise your hand. Is it really that big a deal?

Ive had a guy say to me- "theres no electronical in the car" when his car wouldn't start. This is a hopeless cause, besides, wheres the fun is forcing everyone to ask questions the same way?
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  #21  
Old 05-24-2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
x2.

Basically the concept here is to ask new forum members to restrict their questions to a specific formula to reduce irritation of standing forum members? The next person who actually thinks such a rule would realistically be followed raise your hand. Is it really that big a deal?

Ive had a guy say to me- "theres no electronical in the car" when his car wouldn't start. This is a hopeless cause, besides, wheres the fun is forcing everyone to ask questions the same way?
I think of it as a challenge in deciphering what's going on!
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2011, 01:44 PM
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how's about to crank or not to crank
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2011, 02:00 PM
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I think a similar post should be started and forwarded to ebay regarding left- vs. right side...
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2011, 05:17 PM
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FYI

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBelliveau View Post
I think a similar post should be started and forwarded to ebay regarding left- vs. right side...
Left and Right orientation/definition.
Left and Right orientation/definition.






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  #25  
Old 05-24-2011, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBelliveau View Post
I think a similar post should be started and forwarded to ebay regarding left- vs. right side...
There were some at a company I used to work for that liked to use "roadside" and "curbside". This is fine in the U.S., but what happens when you take the same vehicle to Japan or England? We went around a few times on this and I ended up being able to use left and right in my reports.
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  #26  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:19 AM
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Won't crank is terminologically identical to won't turn over in my book. Cranking is the process of turning the engine (rotating it; turning it over like flipping a hamburger, etc) with a starting mechanism (electric starter? hand crank? whatever?) in order to make it START. So cranking is turning the engine over. The engine has only started when it runs on its own after the starter is disengaged. The startER has done its work; the engine is now startED.

I agree with whunter way up there: won't crank and won't start are the only two terms with any real meaning. Other synonyms should be made to equal one or the other of those two terms. We don't need a separate one for starts-and-then-dies; just say starts-and-then-dies.
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:35 AM
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no crank and crank no start are the only terms you really need when dealing with issues of engines not starting. it either wont turn or it will turn it just wont start why complicate it? what more do you need?
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  #28  
Old 05-25-2011, 11:46 AM
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To address the two previous posts, the issue addressed by the OP is not the understanding of what each expression means, it is the random reassignment of the use or interpretation of these terms.

Example: Many many times we'll see comments like:
Quote:
...It wont turn over
After several posts asking for information about engine turning or firing or starting and stopping......yada yada yada, clearly everyone going with different interpretations of what the poster meant, we later find that perhaps the motor spins over but will not fire.

Example:
Quote:
OMG it wont start
same as above, lots of follow up questions, and the issue is, "Turn key, nothing happens".

Clearly if we come up with a better system, they'll send us a better idiot.

This thread is simply about adopting a clear verbiage to describe a specific condition. Problem will never be solved, but perhaps reduced.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Renntag View Post
I have found that our usage of English in so many areas is becoming more washed due to laziness than anything else. I wish more people would take the time to listen or look at what they are trying to communicate (Text or verbal).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
More washed?
Perhaps not the best word choice. But my point was that as more and more slang terms and text usage finds its way into daily language, substance is lost.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
Reminds me of one of my favorites: the vibration dampener.
Exactly.
how about redundancy? Good for data management, but not language.
"Whole entire"




Quote:
Originally Posted by Renntag View Post
I wish more people would take the time to listen or look at what they are trying to communicate (Text or verbal).
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
Not necessarily in that order.
Thank you. Please notice I didn't say "respectively" ?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Renntag View Post
I agree that this term shoudl be eliminated simply due to its ambiguity and chronic misuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
And everyone shoudl proofread to eliminate chronic misspelling!
Indeed. You got me. Fumbled on the key board. Nice way to respectfully follow suit and continue the new spelling.
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:11 PM
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While I agree with Whunter that simpler is better, his suggestion of "Won't Crank = the engine does NOT turn over" and " Won't Start = engine cranks (running the battery down) but Fails to start" will never be adopted by the masses, and we'll forever be asking "does it crank?" if someone says it won't start.

So, using my infinite OP prerogative rights, I hereby declare loepke72's terms as the "right stuff". Let it henceforth and heretoforever be declared that all posters must use either "no crank no start" or "crank no start".

Let's see how well THAT works. Living in dreamland, I remain, Sincerely,

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  #30  
Old 05-25-2011, 02:26 PM
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Agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renntag View Post
Clearly if we come up with a better system, they'll send us a better idiot.



http://www.tbonix.com/blog/archive/2005_07_01_.html
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