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-   -   "Thar She Blows!!". W115 blow-by video. (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/299393-thar-she-blows-w115-blow-video.html)

tomscat1 05-25-2011 08:04 PM

"Thar She Blows!!". W115 blow-by video.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnXaMkyA0hw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

The above link should be a YouTube video I did over the weekend, showing the blow-by in my W115 300D. How much blow-by is too much blow-by?

I am thinking, after this experience, that I may have to rethink the Marlene Diederich name that i have given to the car.... Keeping the same initials, and simply changing it to "Moby Dick!!!".

"Thar she blows! "

:)

Please let me know if the video fails to load. Thanks.

strelnik 05-25-2011 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomscat1 (Post 2724339)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnXaMkyA0hw&feature=youtube_gdata_player



I am thinking, after this experience, that I may have to rethink the Marlene Diederich name that i have given to the car.... Keeping the same initials, and simply changing it to "Moby Dick!!!".

.

It would still be MB, as in " Mercedes Benz"

Biodiesel300TD 05-25-2011 08:44 PM

If it still runs and isn't running away then it's not too much blowby!:P
Is the engine cold or running at operating temp? If it's cold then try it again when it's warm. Also how long ago was the valve adjustment? If it was just was the day you took the video, try it again after you run the car for a couple days. The valves may reseat a little and reduce the blow by.
Other than a rebuild, unfortunately not much can be done about blowby. One thing you can try is pouring a little bit of Marvel Mystery Oil or brake fluid into the cylinders and let it sit for a while. This will break any gummed up piston rings. You'll have to remove the injectors to do this. Change the oil post soak, to remove any fluid that drained down.
You can use thicker oil to help reduce the oil loss to blowby, I've also seen people put filters in the bypass hose to filter out the oil so they don't burn it.

tomscat1 05-25-2011 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD (Post 2724357)
If it still runs and isn't running away then it's not too much blowby!:P
Is the engine cold or running at operating temp? If it's cold then try it again when it's warm. Also how long ago was the valve adjustment? If it was just was the day you took the video, try it again after you run the car for a couple days. The valves may reseat a little and reduce the blow by.
Other than a rebuild, unfortunately not much can be done about blowby. One thing you can try is pouring a little bit of Marvel Mystery Oil or brake fluid into the cylinders and let it sit for a while. This will break any gummed up piston rings. You'll have to remove the injectors to do this. Change the oil post soak, to remove any fluid that drained down.
You can use thicker oil to help reduce the oil loss to blowby, I've also seen people put filters in the bypass hose to filter out the oil so they don't burn it.

That blow-by video was done with the engine cold, about 15 minutes after I adjusted the valves. Don't forget, I was working under considerable pressure that day, what with the end of the world fast approaching, and all that. I wanted to get that video in the can, so to speak, before the Rapture. :)

Thanks for those suggestions... I plan to do a leak down test shortly, and proceed from there based on what I find. I may take that suggestion about the Marvel Mystery Oil after I do the leak down.... Then do another leak down to see if it made a difference. If the problem seems to be limited to the cylinder head, e.g., valve stem guides and seals, I will probably have the head redone. If there are significant issues in the bottom end also, I may opt to just swap in a good used engine. Assuming that is something that can be found. :)

Anyway, thanks for your input.

Skippy 05-25-2011 09:36 PM

So why are thinking about changing your head? Does the car exhibit any symptoms? Your blowby doesn't look that bad. It would probably pass the "tea kettle test".

tomscat1 05-25-2011 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy (Post 2724386)
So why are thinking about changing your head? Does the car exhibit any symptoms? Your blowby doesn't look that bad. It would probably pass the "tea kettle test".


Yes, it uses a quart of oil in 150-200 miles. I have been told it need guides seals, and rings.... But I want to delve into that a little more to see if it really needs 'all of the above', or perhaps... Just some of the above.


What is the 'tea kettle test'? I can see the visual connection... But I haven't heard that term before.

Thanks.

1980sd 05-25-2011 09:51 PM

I'm new to diesels but that looks like a DISASTER :eek: Please tell me I'm wrong...

kerry 05-25-2011 10:06 PM

I've seen considerably worse in a well running 617.

tomscat1 05-25-2011 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry (Post 2724402)
I've seen considerably worse in a well running 617.

I really don't know how to evaluate the blow-by.... That is more of a sideshow.... I have heard from others that it is not that big of a deal...

My concern is the 1 quart every 150 miles, or so, of oil consumption. For the amount that I drive the car, frankly, even that isn't a big deal.... But I would like to determine the cause, and then decide what's to be done about it.

It is really a neat car, I like the style, and, as an OM617 W115, it is an historic and increasingly rare model.... So I would like to preserve it. Historic in the sense that the 1975 300D was the first time Mercedes put a 5 cylinder diesel in a sedan.... And it was only in the W115 for those two years, in 1975 and 1976. Then the W123 was introduced.

My son loves it, and I plan to give it to him at some point. I would like to give it to him in better shape than it is now.

Oh, and did I mention... It was also built the year I got married... So a bit of Romantic Nostalgia there also. It is more than just nuts and bolts, and dollars and cents.

All of the above enters into my decision as to what ultimately needs to be done to the car. More than you wanted to know, I am sure. :)

katja 05-26-2011 12:11 AM

Mine isn't quite that steamy, but not too far off. Despite a new oil cap gasket, it still makes that oily mess on the valve cover gasket and oil works its way onto the top of the air cleaner too.

I'm not sure if it's the way the camera's picking up the audio and the belt or pulley noise, but the idle of that engine doesn't sound right to me...it sounds slow and a bit rough. Though mine does that too when it's completely cold and the idle control is all the way down.

Anyway, Mr. Camping said the end of the world is really October 21, so you have a few more months to improve the blowby before everything blows up.

Skippy 05-26-2011 12:11 AM

Yeah, a quart in 150 miles is pretty bad. You're probably right about the head, but right to do a leakdown test first.

Some of your reasons for liking your 300D sound similar to my reasons for wanting a '78 300SD: First turbodiesel passenger car ever, only available in the 116 chassis two years, and built the year I was born.

mach0415 05-26-2011 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD (Post 2724357)
If it still runs and isn't running away then it's not too much blowby!:P
Is the engine cold or running at operating temp? If it's cold then try it again when it's warm. Also how long ago was the valve adjustment? If it was just was the day you took the video, try it again after you run the car for a couple days. The valves may reseat a little and reduce the blow by.
Other than a rebuild, unfortunately not much can be done about blowby. One thing you can try is pouring a little bit of Marvel Mystery Oil or brake fluid into the cylinders and let it sit for a while. This will break any gummed up piston rings. You'll have to remove the injectors to do this. Change the oil post soak, to remove any fluid that drained down.
You can use thicker oil to help reduce the oil loss to blowby, I've also seen people put filters in the bypass hose to filter out the oil so they don't burn it.

My understanding is that blowby indicates ring wear or a hole in a piston - some kind of lower end issue. Valve adjustment would not allow compression to leak into the sump. It would only leak through the exhaust or intake. This is the purpose of doing a cylinder leak-down test as the result of low compression numbers - to find where compression is being lost.

kerry 05-26-2011 09:13 AM

The vent line for the vacuum pump visible in the video seemed somewhat dirty. It's possible you have a hole in the diaphragm and are feeding oil directly into the intake via the vent line.

Biodiesel300TD 05-26-2011 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach0415 (Post 2724523)
My understanding is that blowby indicates ring wear or a hole in a piston - some kind of lower end issue. Valve adjustment would not allow compression to leak into the sump. It would only leak through the exhaust or intake. This is the purpose of doing a cylinder leak-down test as the result of low compression numbers - to find where compression is being lost.

Yes you are right but I also think that if the valves aren't closing all the way due to tight clearances then oil will have a chance to slip past the valve stem seals up into the head, assuming the stem seals are worn. While this may not be the largest portion of oil in the blowby it's not helping at all, and it's something easy to fix and is preventative maintenance.

Biodiesel300TD 05-26-2011 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry (Post 2724573)
The vent line for the vacuum pump visible in the video seemed somewhat dirty. It's possible you have a hole in the diaphragm and are feeding oil directly into the intake via the vent line.

That dumps oil directly into the air intake, which adds to smoking but not blow by. I've had that problem on my 240D. Put a new diaphragm in the pump and the smoking went away.

kerry 05-26-2011 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD (Post 2724672)
That dumps oil directly into the air intake, which adds to smoking but not blow by. I've had that problem on my 240D. Put a new diaphragm in the pump and the smoking went away.

Yes, not blowby, but oil consumption.

Biodiesel300TD 05-26-2011 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry (Post 2724677)
Yes, not blowby, but oil consumption.

Still a good idea to fix for sure.

brakeengr 05-26-2011 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katja (Post 2724466)
Despite a new oil cap gasket, it still makes that oily mess on the valve cover gasket and oil works its way onto the top of the air cleaner too.

Do you have the plastic cap? I put 2 gaskets in the cap- worked for a while, but did not fix it. Got a new cap (it was plastic) from the dealer- again, short term fix. Finally got a used metal cap on ebay, and it has been absolutely spanking clean since then!
I just checked- there are a couple of metal caps on ebay- $16 and $30 bucks; i got mine for $5

tomscat1 05-26-2011 01:59 PM

I love this forum. That is great information... I have to run to a meeting presently, but I may have more to add later. I have had suspicions about that vacuum line... and it is relatively new. I am going to take another look at it in the next few days.

Thanks, fellas.

curtludwig 05-26-2011 04:21 PM

Oooh...
http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/z...om_shutoff.jpg

Here's Tom shutting off his car at ChowdaQ 2009. I didn't bring my camera last year so didn't snap a repeat pic.

That'd be a cheap thing to fix before re-evaluating oil consumption. It'd also be worth running/parking over cardboard to determine if you've got some hard to spot leak thats causing some of the consumption.

If it were me I'd have the head redone. I think you're probably going to want that no matter what. The 115 617 engine is relatively rare since they were only 2 years, I don't know if you can use a later 617 block or not. That would be a relatively easy answer if you could but never the less a known good head would be a nice place to start no matter what.

Skippy 05-26-2011 04:52 PM

Back to the ruptured vacuum pump diaphragm, I had that happen on my 240D and it manifested as a big oil leak down the right side of the engine and traced to the air cleaner housing, which was full of oil that the vacuum pump had pumped in. Is it routed differently on a W115?

tomscat1 05-26-2011 05:10 PM

Nice one, Curt. :)
This was all part of my brilliantly diabolical plan to capture the ChowdahQ Jalopy Award from the reigning previous winner.... which was.... You guessed it: Curt!

:)

Yes I have a spare shut off valve for the injection pump.... Just haven't gotten around to doing it. For the past.... Er..... 6 or 7 years. :). It is on my list for this project though. Unfortunately, that means you may not get any more pics like this one, Curt.
I want to do the leak down test. If need be I will either redo this head, or redo the spare cylinder head I have from my dear departed 1976 rust bucket. RIP.

I just rechecked that vacuum line, in the light of our earlier conversation. It appears clean. The dark area seen in the video may have been caused by the lighting. That line broke about two years ago, and I replaced it. I took several more pics of it....so you can see it is pretty clear... And if I can figure a way to post them from this iPad (not bloody likely, btw) I will. Otherwise I will do it from my computer at work. It is probably worth noting that the old line did show evidence of oil when it broke... So I wouldn't be surprised to find some in the new one.... But it doesn't appear to be there now.

tomscat1 05-26-2011 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy (Post 2724805)
Back to the ruptured vacuum pump diaphragm, I had that happen on my 240D and it manifested as a big oil leak down the right side of the engine and traced to the air cleaner housing, which was full of oil that the vacuum pump had pumped in. Is it routed differently on a W115?

I do have some oil showing on the intake manifold.... I think it is coming from the breather hose that goes to the valve cover.... Probably blow-by, I'm thinking.

I have the air cleaner housing that resides down low behind the passenger headlight, not up on the manifold. I should inspect that.... Haven't done that in a while.

tomscat1 05-27-2011 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtludwig (Post 2724795)
Oooh...
http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/z...om_shutoff.jpg

Here's Tom shutting off his car at ChowdaQ 2009. I didn't bring my camera last year so didn't snap a repeat pic.

That'd be a cheap thing to fix before re-evaluating oil consumption. It'd also be worth running/parking over cardboard to determine if you've got some hard to spot leak thats causing some of the consumption.

If it were me I'd have the head redone. I think you're probably going to want that no matter what. The 115 617 engine is relatively rare since they were only 2 years, I don't know if you can use a later 617 block or not. That would be a relatively easy answer if you could but never the less a known good head would be a nice place to start no matter what.

Mercedes W115 Manual Shut Down

Curt's pic (above) was just a tease. I KNOW you want more. So, here is the whole technically complex procedure involved in manually shutting down the OM617 Mercedes Diesel engine, complete with voice-over narrration explaining this complicated procedure in great detail.

No Mercedes diesels were injured in the making of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq03HN6c-tQ

WARNING: I am a quasi-professional (Half-Fast Mechanic). Do NOT try this at home!

;)

tomscat1 05-27-2011 09:53 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomscat1 (Post 2724818)
I do have some oil showing on the intake manifold.... I think it is coming from the breather hose that goes to the valve cover.... Probably blow-by, I'm thinking.

I have the air cleaner housing that resides down low behind the passenger headlight, not up on the manifold. I should inspect that.... Haven't done that in a while.


Here is a pic of the oil on the intake manifold... it appears to be coming from the breather hose that goes to the valve cover.

tomscat1 05-27-2011 10:01 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomscat1 (Post 2724812)
I just rechecked that vacuum line, in the light of our earlier conversation. It appears clean. The dark area seen in the video may have been caused by the lighting. That line broke about two years ago, and I replaced it. I took several more pics of it....so you can see it is pretty clear... And if I can figure a way to post them from this iPad (not bloody likely, btw) I will. Otherwise I will do it from my computer at work. It is probably worth noting that the old line did show evidence of oil when it broke... So I wouldn't be surprised to find some in the new one.... But it doesn't appear to be there now.

Here are the pics of the vacuum line... the line appears a little dark in places, but there is no evidence of oil in the line... just shadows from the lighting, as far as I can tell. There is definitely oil residue around the breather hose, however, where it attaches to the manifold.

Biodiesel300TD 05-27-2011 11:37 AM

For the breather hose from the valve cover to the intake, just put a hose clamp on the intake side, and you'll stop getting oil all over the intake. It will just go into the manifold instead. My 240 was doing this a while back. A hose clamp kept the oil in the engine rather than on the engine.

Stretch 05-27-2011 01:51 PM

I'm just wondering if you could change the results of an emissions test by letting it all flow out the top of the oil cap!

Biodiesel300TD 05-27-2011 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army (Post 2725238)
I'm just wondering if you could change the results of an emissions test by letting it all flow out the top of the oil cap!

Yes, if you have enough oil blowing through the breather. This is exactly why MB put the oil separator in the air filter housing on the later 123s.


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