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-   -   Runs Great, won't start? (https://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/301308-runs-great-wont-start.html)

Sloppyjoec 07-01-2011 09:57 PM

Runs Great, won't start?
 
my 1975 w115 240D with manual glow plugs and pneumatic Governor would not start without a fight and would run like a sweetheart.

Fought this for years, new glow plugs, fresh fuel lines, filters, you name it, in the meantime it only got worse, until it wouldn't start for good.

Just about sold it for parts, the first guy on the phone talked me into another look, IT WAS THE START/Stop cable with too much play in it, started a minute ago a lot better than it has in awhile.

My wife is gonna kill someone.

kerry 07-01-2011 10:39 PM

I was going to suggest investigating a problem with the stop mechanism.

Sloppyjoec 07-06-2011 12:34 PM

Nevermind
 
Went to take it to work today and no start, just like before. I tried to hold the lever aganst the start pos. while my wife cranked it an dno signs of life, back to the drawing board

NickCox 07-20-2011 03:36 PM

I have a 1975 240d. It has been slowing getting harder to start (long time cranking) for the last couple of weeks. It has the same symptoms as the starting post.

Right now the car won't start.
I've bleed the fuel system without benefit. New fuel filters about a month ago.

Engine has good compression, and the glow plugs work (new) It seems like it's not getting fuel.

Any input would be appreciated. I kind of need this car to be running soon.

kerry 07-20-2011 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickCox (Post 2754998)
I have a 1975 240d. It has been slowing getting harder to start (long time cranking) for the last couple of weeks. It has the same symptoms as the starting post.

Right now the car won't start.
I've bleed the fuel system without benefit. New fuel filters about a month ago.

Engine has good compression, and the glow plugs work (new) It seems like it's not getting fuel.

Any input would be appreciated. I kind of need this car to be running soon.

Feed it off a soda bottle filled with diesel in the engine compartment. If it runs ok then, youknow the problem is upstream in the fuel system.

NickCox 07-20-2011 04:01 PM

Thanks kerry.

i believe the fuel going to the pump is fine. I have a half a tank of fuel. I already drove the car 200 miles on the same fuel without issue. The pump is getting fuel. The pre-filter is clean.

boneheaddoctor 07-20-2011 04:13 PM

When was the last time you checked the valves? They might have tightened up recently enough to cause a compression drop.

NickCox 07-20-2011 04:16 PM

I adj. the valves when i bought the car, about three months ago.

Diesel911 07-20-2011 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickCox (Post 2755014)
Thanks kerry.

i believe the fuel going to the pump is fine. I have a half a tank of fuel. I already drove the car 200 miles on the same fuel without issue. The pump is getting fuel. The pre-filter is clean.

Kerry's suggestion was a good one because troubleshooting is often a process of elimination.
The whole idea of it is to take the "I believe" type guess work out of the equation.

If you did what Kerry suggested and it ran OK like that it would tell you a lot.
If you still had trouble starting after doing what Kerry suggested that would also tell you something.

On this forum and other Mercedes Forums the Diesels made around your time seem to be having starting problems. I am thinking that the Fuel Supply/Lift Pumps or the Fuel Pressure Relief/Overflow valves need some fixing after all of these years.

Replacing the little Valves inside of the Fuel Supply Pump and the single O-ring that goes in it yourself is in the $15-$20 range.
Or if you have the Mercedes Service Manual and a set up to do so you could check the Out Put pressure on the Fuel Supply Pump.

piccolovic 07-20-2011 05:02 PM

Run a fuel system cleaner through, that will go through the IP and injectors. Hopefully you can get it started then. Do you have any leaking from the return hoses?

whunter 07-20-2011 05:03 PM

Hmm
 
If the timing device and/or springs are weak/worn out = you will be trying to start with massive overfueling = flooding.

Press/hold the mechanical stop lever, have an assistant cycle the glow plugs then crank the engine.

If it starts and runs = odds are 70% the timing device and/or springs are weak/worn out


Diesel Injection Pump Timing Device threads
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=239595

***********************************

Drip Timing Threads
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=197093

Help: What oil goes into Injector Pump??
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=217522

OM616/617 Injection Pump.
How to adjust the Naturally Aspirated Injection Pump.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=678986

'75 240 D M-style IP Theory - Help!
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=532895

Fuel injection pump diagrams???
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=141323

IP Timing
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=150375

Setting timing with IP lock tool.... Why won't the plunger set?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=83763

Adjusting injection pump timing without setting cam timing
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=1077248

Injector pump timing
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=1310290

Diesel Timing Chain Link Thread
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=1251434

wont start for anything!
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=104222&page=41&pp=20

Fuel injection pump starvation with good a good lift pump
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=2133911

Fuel pressure relief valve adjustment
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=234609

lift pump test
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=277893

fuel pressure
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=2156755

*********************************************


Inline diesel Injection Pumps
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=296400

Injector + Heat shield + Nozzle, Prechamber + Collar and Nailing. LINK THREAD
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=211750

Fuel only dribbles from removed injector line when cranking at WOT
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=2684156

How forcefully will fuel come out of injector lines
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=1563783

Here's my payback! Diesel Primer Pump Replacement
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=109076



Have a great day.

NickCox 07-20-2011 10:32 PM

Tried a few things..

Held the mech. stop lever forward, toward the front of car = Cranks, but without effort to start

Then I moved the mech. lever around, and left it disconnected from cable. (pointing straight down) = Cranked car, after 5 seconds of spinning, engine sputters a little more, and fired right up. Car runs and drives fine.

An hour later I try to start to car again, without success (10 seconds of cranking) Cable connected from gorilla knob to mechical stop lever also.

Thanks for all input, not sure what to think

NickCox 07-27-2011 04:02 PM

After this past week of fighting the ol' 240d, I'm looking for much needed advice.

I don't believe the mechanical stop level is the problem, at all.

Now here is the newest problem to boot. Good fuel leak coming from the injector pump. I noticed it two days ago. When the car is idling there is at least a drip of fuel every 5 seconds to the ground. The top delivery valves are not leaking. Injectors leak slightly from return lines, but not anywhere close to the volume of fuel leaking to ground. I'm still having starting issues whether it be hot or cold. After shutting down the engine, the leaks seems to stop or really slow down.

I'm guessing the starting issue has to do with losing prime in the injector pump? I've noticed in the past a little diesel on the ground after driving, but just assumed it was from injector return lines leaking. Was that the start of this leak? Now its really bad.

Leaking lift pump? I've tried to find the leak today, but its a mess down there!

Hope someone has ideas

Thanks in advance

piccolovic 07-27-2011 04:21 PM

Leak
 
OK . . . I had the same exact problem on the same exact engine . . . before you look at lift pumps, IP rebuilds, etc.:

1. start with fixing the obvious, and usually the cheapeast!!! Before you go past "GO," replace all of your return lines and bleed the system. You would be amazed at how much is actually leaking and may be the entire cause of the problem. The old return lines get eaten up by the newer diesel fuel, and have to eventually be replaced by the new stuff that is reformulated. This is where my problems stopped on my 190D.

2. However, on my 240D, it was less of a problem, but not the entire fix, and I had to go to step 2. If you still have a leak, look to see if there is pooling under the injectors . . . if so, time to remove your injectors, put on a table-mounted vice grip and snug them up, replacing any o-rings or snap rings that may also be required. If there is no pooling from the injectors, then go on to step 3, which should also be looked at immediately.

3. Check every clamp, hose, and tubing go make sure there isn't any leaking from connections to and from aux fuel pump/primer pump, pre-filter, clear in-line filter, etc. Trace the entire fuel path under the hood of the car. Make sure the tubing isn't leaking where it's connected to the IP or Injectors, and anywhere else they connect. After you have eliminated all that, and only after all of the has been replaced and eliminated as a source, should you start looking at pump, or IP, and if it is either, make sure it's not simple mounting gasket, first. Never mess with the IP adjustments unless it is last resort!!! and then only, if you have a backup plan!!!

barry123400 07-27-2011 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloppyjoec (Post 2747517)
Went to take it to work today and no start, just like before. I tried to hold the lever aganst the start pos. while my wife cranked it an dno signs of life, back to the drawing board

Well I assume you have checked the valve clearances. If so it is time for a compression check. Also does the starter sound like it is turning the engine over quick enough.

Try using the primer pump before any of the above until you hear the relief valve squeek just before attempting to start. Could be as simple as the fuel draining back. Or try having someone pump it during the attempt to start as well.

I have to assume that you monitored the actual voltage at the glow plugs with the key or whatever in the glow position. New plugs alone are no gaurantee the system is working.

For example as well a shorted glow plug down the line could take a glowplug offline and there are a lot of diesels that just about refuse to start even with just one plug offline.


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