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  #76  
Old 07-14-2011, 10:25 AM
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Could it be that once the vacuum comes up that you are shutting down the engine as if turning off the key? in other words there's some sort of vacuum applied to the engine shutoff valve? I don't know if that is even possible, but you might try disconnecting the vacuum line to the shutoff if you haven't already.
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  #77  
Old 07-14-2011, 02:28 PM
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Clamp off the relief valve return line from the injection pump just in case the relief valve is wide open. Also watch fuel being expelled out the relief valve when cranking for a lot of air.

Best done with a tube into a little bottle with some fluid in it to submerge the end of the tube. This way you can establish if it is fuel or air.

No spillage from the relief valve indicates no or substandard fuel pressure. Lots of air bubbles indicate air ingress somewhere into the injection pump.

Three seconds is also about the amount of time to establish enough vacuum to shut the engine down. Thats if there is a fault in the shutoff circuit. Just pulling the vacuum line from the shutoff device eliminates that as a possibility.It is possible as well as was mentioned in the last post if the vacuum system is pretty good.
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  #78  
Old 07-14-2011, 02:58 PM
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My bad memory recalls a thread from a couple of years ago from a guy in Louisiana(?) with a 116SD with similar symptoms(?). Turned out was something to do with the mechanism that attaches the IP to the timing chain. He had a long thread with a lot of good pictures. Anyone else recall that situation? Were the symptoms of running, then shutting off the same?
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1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
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  #79  
Old 07-14-2011, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
Clamp off the relief valve return line from the injection pump just in case the relief valve is wide open. Also watch fuel being expelled out the relief valve when cranking for a lot of air.

Best done with a tube into a little bottle with some fluid in it to submerge the end of the tube. This way you can establish if it is fuel or air.

No spillage from the relief valve indicates no or substandard fuel pressure. Lots of air bubbles indicate air ingress somewhere into the injection pump.

Three seconds is also about the amount of time to establish enough vacuum to shut the engine down. Thats if there is a fault in the shutoff circuit. Just pulling the vacuum line from the shutoff device eliminates that as a possibility.It is possible as well as was mentioned in the last post if the vacuum system is pretty good.
Isolated the vacuum, the vacuum shutoff is disconnected for now.

Working on it right now, hail keeping me in doors
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  #80  
Old 07-14-2011, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by micalk View Post
Could it be that once the vacuum comes up that you are shutting down the engine as if turning off the key? in other words there's some sort of vacuum applied to the engine shutoff valve? I don't know if that is even possible, but you might try disconnecting the vacuum line to the shutoff if you haven't already.
Equally it could be bad blow by causing the crank case pressure to rise & put pressure on the back of the shut off diaphragm. You could try starting with the oil filler cap of. If it starts, it will make a mess though.

I am clutching at straws for ideas now.
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  #81  
Old 07-14-2011, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by layback40 View Post

I am clutching at straws for ideas now.
I know, I'm feeling you there.

Got it running 3 different times, it runs LONGER on the electric fuel pump (i have to open the priming pump and leave it open for the electric fuel pump to work) but still kills itself.

I'm going back to timing, should I set it back to TDC and change it so that the IP is set to time against TDC and not 24 degrees before TDC?

Also, how can I access the fuel tank to check for leaks at the fuel line?
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  #82  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:05 AM
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You in Denver?
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
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1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
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1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #83  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:05 AM
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You can't miss the fuel tank. Just crawl under the rear of the car. The supply hose comes out the front of the tank. Short rubber hose to hard line. Are you running the car from the tank, or from a jug of fuel? If tank, have you cleaned the tank strainer? How much fuel is in the tank? Have you checked the timing marks on the cam sprocket/tower while the crank pulley shows TDC? If you're using an electric fuel pump, why don't you bypass the lift/primer pumps assy. entirely??

Jay.
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  #84  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
You in Denver?
Cheyenne


Quote:
Originally Posted by babyjames View Post
You can't miss the fuel tank. Just crawl under the rear of the car. The supply hose comes out the front of the tank. Short rubber hose to hard line. Are you running the car from the tank, or from a jug of fuel? If tank, have you cleaned the tank strainer? How much fuel is in the tank? Have you checked the timing marks on the cam sprocket/tower while the crank pulley shows TDC? If you're using an electric fuel pump, why don't you bypass the lift/primer pumps assy. entirely??

Jay.
Timing marks look correct and matched up when I was timing the engine.

I am tempted to bypass the assembly completely and just have the IP run off the fuel pump

Had to move the car this afternoon because I got a sticker on it from the Cheyenne Police threatening to tow it because they thought it was abandoned.
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  #85  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:31 AM
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Process of elimination. Skip the lift pump and run directly from you're guaranteed fuel source - gatorade bottle - to electric fuel pump to secondary filter. If it still dies, then look real closely at your secondary filter ass'y. If you are 100% sure that is not the source of the air leak, well, the only other possibilty is a problem upstream. IP/timing.

Conversely, if it runs fine, you know the problem probably lies downstream. A bad lift/primer pump, a rusty fuel line, a clogged tank strainer, no fuel in the tank....

When you get it started, does it run "well" for a bit, then die, or is it struggling the whole time?

Jay.
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'83 300D (German spec.) 168k mi. - - Wolfgang (tucked snugly away for the winter!)
'87 300D 375k mi. - finally went over to "The Dark Side"
'87 300TD 225k mi.
Cannondale 66cm CAAD5 w/Campy/Jamis Aurora
Hujsak Custom Fixie/Landshark Track Shark Custom/Ahearne Custom 29'er
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  #86  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babyjames View Post
Process of elimination. Skip the lift pump and run directly from you're guaranteed fuel source - gatorade bottle - to electric fuel pump to secondary filter. If it still dies, then look real closely at your secondary filter ass'y. If you are 100% sure that is not the source of the air leak, well, the only other possibilty is a problem upstream. IP/timing.

Conversely, if it runs fine, you know the problem probably lies downstream. A bad lift/primer pump, a rusty fuel line, a clogged tank strainer, no fuel in the tank....

When you get it started, does it run "well" for a bit, then die, or is it struggling the whole time?

Jay.
Struggles at first, then runs smooth, and then dies
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  #87  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:37 AM
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Dies abruptly, or sorta' sputters out? Can you prolong the "death" by opening the throttle?

Jay.
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On the road, currently:
'83 300D (German spec.) 168k mi. - - Wolfgang (tucked snugly away for the winter!)
'87 300D 375k mi. - finally went over to "The Dark Side"
'87 300TD 225k mi.
Cannondale 66cm CAAD5 w/Campy/Jamis Aurora
Hujsak Custom Fixie/Landshark Track Shark Custom/Ahearne Custom 29'er
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  #88  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:40 AM
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Jay (aka babyjames) has a good plan. Basically it is splitting the fuel system in half to close in on where the trouble is. If it runs ok before it dies, I'm thinking it is fuel related, but if it runs crappy on a known good fuel source and pump, then it is most likely an IP/timing issue.
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  #89  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by babyjames View Post
Dies abruptly, or sorta' sputters out? Can you prolong the "death" by opening the throttle?

Jay.
Depends, it seems to die abruptly, I can get the engine to rev when running but its not strong and feels struggling when it revs
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  #90  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:43 AM
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Struggles, then smooth, then dies sounds like a fuel starvation issue. I cannot remember, are both fuel filters new? If you have not done so yet, take off the secondary fuel filter, look at the O ring and the seal, re-fill it with fuel and carefully tighten it with the bolt while holding it up snug against the housing. It is starting to sound a bit like an issue I had recently with a bad secondary fuel filter
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