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  #1  
Old 07-04-2011, 01:39 PM
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240D Turbo conversion build

I am planning on building a Turbo 240, and welcome your thoughts about the project. I know that the problem with adding a turbo on a N/A Diesel, is that there are none of the parts in the engine that help it to handle the heat from the turbo (oil jets, special rings, sodium filled valves, oil pump etc). I am working (actually just thinking and gathering parts) on building a 240 turbo engine. I will be boring the cyls to fit 300DT pistons, adding oil jets (most difficult task), rebuilding the head with TD valves, 300TD oil pump, modified intake and exhaust manifolds. I will need to find a way to add extra fuel, as the 4 cyl injection pump has no provision for that. I may have to find an I P shop that can build me a pump using parts from the 4 cyl N/A, and a 5 cyl turbo units. This should be a fun project.
I have the car ($400 240 with a blown engine), the turbo & manifolds, plenty of 617 pistons, rods, valves, etc. The car has an auto trans, but I have a complete 4 speed setup for it. I want to do this project correctly so the engine will last. Any thoughts or input from you guys on this forum would be appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 07-04-2011, 01:45 PM
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Is ForcedInduction available again as a username?

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87 300D
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  #3  
Old 07-04-2011, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sixto View Post
Is ForcedInduction available again as a username?

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Even if it was, I would not like the fame (or lack thereof) that goes along with it.
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  #4  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:05 PM
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You can get plenty of fuel out of the 616 ip. Ideally larger elements should be put in. But even without them there is plenty of fuel. 5.5mm is the standard element size for both the turbo and non turbo pumps. Basically both pumps are identical except for the number of elements, 4 for the 4 cylinder 5 for the 5 cylinder.

I don't know what hp level you are going for, but if not to high then proper adjustments to the stock pump have gotten about 100 or hp for others. I've heard of as much as 250hp dyno proven, with pump mods. I am not sure what turbo that engine was using, it was posted in superturbodiesel.com

I am looking a 10mm elements on my 240, possibly with a differant ip cam. Right now I.ve just adjusted the stock ip, but would like to get fueling quicker, i.e less degrees of crankshaft revolution. This is one of the advantages of larger elements. If fuel is injected too long(in degrees of crankshaft rotation) then it gets past the point to which it can be effectively burned. Smoke and high egt's are the result.

You may want to look at the posts by josha37 in the performance section of this forum. Granted you want your engine to live, but you get an idea of what these engines can be pushed to.
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  #5  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:28 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong, but just forcing more air in (adding a turbo to a 240 without any other mods) will not do anything. It needs more fuel as well. Would just changing the elements to larger ones be the only thing needed to add more fuel? Is there an adjustment on the stock 240 I P that will add more fuel? I don't really like a lot of smoke from my turbo 617's, so I don't remove the ALDA. Adjusting the ALDA has given satisfactory (improved) performance from all the ALDA's I have adjusted. I think adding the ALDA ( rear section from a turbo I P ?) and associated plumbing to a 4 cyl I P would keep the smoke to a minimum. I am just thinking out loud here. There is a valve on top of the 4 cyl I P (aneroid valve?). What function does it have that is different from an ALDA? Would I need to heavily modify a 4 cyl N/A I P to work well with a turbo, or just replace the valve on top with an ALDA? I suppose I could just take the 2 I P 's apart (I have both) and experiment, but someone here may know what I am up against, and share it.
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  #6  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
I am planning on building a Turbo 240, and welcome your thoughts about the project. I know that the problem with adding a turbo on a N/A Diesel, is that there are none of the parts in the engine that help it to handle the heat from the turbo (oil jets, special rings, sodium filled valves, oil pump etc). I am working (actually just thinking and gathering parts) on building a 240 turbo engine. I will be boring the cyls to fit 300DT pistons, adding oil jets (most difficult task), rebuilding the head with TD valves, 300TD oil pump, modified intake and exhaust manifolds. I will need to find a way to add extra fuel, as the 4 cyl injection pump has no provision for that. I may have to find an I P shop that can build me a pump using parts from the 4 cyl N/A, and a 5 cyl turbo units. This should be a fun project.
I have the car ($400 240 with a blown engine), the turbo & manifolds, plenty of 617 pistons, rods, valves, etc. The car has an auto trans, but I have a complete 4 speed setup for it. I want to do this project correctly so the engine will last. Any thoughts or input from you guys on this forum would be appreciated.
IIRC, there is a turbo versio of the 240D used in India, and made under license. I am sure you could gtet infomon that engine and probably discover that you have a lot of what you need to do the job. It would seem the most important item is the 617 piston
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1950 170SD
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  #7  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:45 PM
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Yes you are correct more air, but not more fuel, will not give more power. Basic hot rodding= more fuel AND more air.

If you look on the superturbodeisel website they just posted an updated info on pump adjustments, here is a link,

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/showthread.php?tid=2770

I am assuming you are doing the machine work on your engine? If so you likely have the skills to learn the pump work.
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  #8  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:52 PM
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You have a blown engine. Drop a good used cheap five cylinder turbo under the hood and save a lot of money. It wil be far from cheap to get a 616 four cylinder engine up to the same power and usability levels as the turbo five cylinder.
Use the transmission as well with the replacement engine if yours is an automatic. The turbo transmission is stronger.

Plenty of wrecks with decent power trains still out there. You want the rear differential and speedometer head as well. The ratio is too high on the 240ds rear end.

Basically should be a bolt in with a little luck as the chassis are the same on all 123s. I did mention a lot cheaper as well than what you mention with a little scrounging. Where you are living is like here in that there are rusted out bodies with good power trains out there.
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  #9  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:11 PM
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Adding a turbo without increasing fuel, does improve performance under some conditions. It overcomes the decrease in horsepower that occurs as altitude increases.
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1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
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  #10  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
You have a blown engine. Drop a good used cheap five cylinder turbo under the hood and save a lot of money.
Been there, done that. My brother bought a very clean '81 300D with a blown engine for cheap. We put in a 617 from an'80 SD. I have (and have had) plenty of 5 cyl turbos, and want to do something new and different. I have heard of others putting a turbo "kit" on their 240, but that is not the best way to do it. Building the engine so it will last is what I am after. I am not planning to enter or win any races either. I have driven a 240, and a 190D (about the same power), and a turbo'd engine would give the car that extra pep it needs, and still get great fuel mileage.
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  #11  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:29 PM
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Yes in high altitude a turbo will help, but generally you will need to up fueling to make adding a turbo worthwhile.

Just my opinion but the 617a makes the 123's handle poorly. To much weight in the front for good handling. Great cruiser but poor on the backroads. There is a 300 pound differnace in the 300 vs 240, mostly engine and trans. That being mostly on the front too. Understeer big time. Yes I know these are not performance cars but I still like to turn sometime. I have both a 240 and 300, so have a good comparision.
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  #12  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:31 PM
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I do agree that one forum member reported fairly substantial gains by including a turbo in his mix on the 616. I also like the way they drive with a lighter four cylinder engine up front. I really want to get my hands on a five speed transmission sometime.
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  #13  
Old 07-05-2011, 02:43 PM
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Stock pump can be turned up for turbo use at the IP shop and you can use the stock elements for right now. Wait and get it running first before diving into larger elements. Or get the larger elements and do it now if money is a factor. Of course larger elements would put out more fuel.

My local shop here can probably do something pretty cheap like in the 400-500 range plus hard parts if needed. They can also install the larger elements. PM me and I'll send over the info.


You might even consider another type of pump, like a Bosch VE rotary with 10mm elements later on. Even though it's 10mm, the VE would put out less fuel but more then the stock MW.



300D50 over at superturbodiesel is working on a N/A 617 conversion to turbo for kicks and is custom making parts for piston jets and oil pump revisions that I think he is going to eventually sell for 240 folks. So you might want to contact him.

The other person is dropnosky. He's doing a 240 turbo conversion also. You can probably pick his mind.

Good luck and have fun.


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  #14  
Old 07-05-2011, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryValve View Post


300D50 over at superturbodiesel is working on a N/A 617 conversion to turbo for kicks and is custom making parts for piston jets and oil pump revisions that I think he is going to eventually sell for 240 folks. So you might want to contact him.

The other person is dropnosky. He's doing a 240 turbo conversion also. You can probably pick his mind.

Good luck and have fun.


.
Thanks for the contacts. I will definitely pick their brain (if they will let me).
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  #15  
Old 07-05-2011, 03:39 PM
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You could use the 621 intake and a rajay turbo like the kit from the 70's throw away the air door (throttle body) and weld in a aluminum elbow pointed at the compressor outlet.


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