Need Quick Advice

[diesel don]

A friend of mine just flew to LA to pick up a 240D (early 80's) and ran into some major trouble I suspect. Can anyone make sense of the following data and offer some diagnostic help?

1. The temperature gauge and oil pressure gauge were not working when he started it up and headed for home (MI).
2. His daughter was chilly, so she tried the heat and that worked.
3. Within a mile or two the car stalled, restarted and stalled again
4. Battery would no longer crank sufficiently, so he called a tow truck
5. Tow truck didn't have enough power to jump it.
6. Towed him to a parts place where he noticed that the oil dip-stick was an inch too high, changed oil and filter and bought new battery.
7. Car started and drove another 2 miles or so where it stalled again at an entrance to the expressway.
8. The car will no longer crank very well. It has a very low umph when trying to crank yet the battery is new

Upon calling the seller, they are having a mechanic look at it, but I'd appreciate any wisdom you guys could offer. Do you think the engine is seized? He said that he never smelled anything hot.

Thanks

Don

[loubapache]

Change both fuel filters.

The new battery is running down because of the repeated starts?

[tcane]

You may have algae in the fuel system. Look at the inline fuel filter and if it has black/grey colored crud in it, then it is probably algae. You can treat algae with Diesel Doctor made by Biobor. Follow the directions on the DD tube and have at least one extra set of fuel filters.

If you're getting good voltage from the alternator (13.2 to 14 volts), then I would look at the starter. Auto Zone and some other auto parts stores will check out the electrical charging/starting system for free - either on the car or bench testing. It really sounds like the starter is bad since cranking speed is slow with another battery connected.

When the engine starts look in the oil filler hole to see if the valve train is getting oil. This will eliminate a potential oil pump problem since the oil pressure gauge is not working.

If your friend plans on driving the car any distance I would suggest a valve adjustment. Look at the belts and tighten a bit if needed or replace, inspect the radiator hoses and coolant level, lights including head/brake/turn, etc., etc.

Good Luck!
Tom

[diesel don]

Thanks to both for good suggestions. Just called him with your advice. Keep it coming....

Don

Don,

You really have to start the investigation with fuel flow. Just like suggested, start with the fuel filters for clues; replace them. Check IP for flow to cylinders. If the car ran well and then died, the injector timing and valve adjustment is probably satisfactory. Best of luck to your friend. That can be a beautiful drive for a guy and his daughter, if they are not shackled with tech. probs. Keep us posted.

[loubapache]

Don:

I read your post again and it seems it stalls when high volume of fuel and air is needed (entrance to the expressway) so check the air filter etc as well.

[psfred]

Check the condition of the suction side fuel line -- if it has gone bad, you will have both fuel starvation and air in the fuel system. Lack of power and hard starts are typical.

Check ease of rotation of engine, too -- if it is very difficult to turn with a socket on the damper bolt, the bearings are bad.

And re-check that oil -- if it has a cracked head or bad head gasket, you may be getting water in the oil, with siezed bearings possible.

However, bad or spun bearings usually knock something fierce, or squeak when cranking.

A slow starter is a distinct possibility, too, but I'd bet on the bad fuel line -- this happened to me on my 220D and to my brother's 300D -- stalling at speed and very long drawn out starts that ran the battery down, couldn't get the fuel system primed with the hand pump. New fuel line fixed it right up.

Temp guage is electric on this car, oil pressure guage is mechanical -- check for loose wire or kinked oil line.

Peter

[leathermang]

Don,keep us up on the progress, that is too bad such a good idea for a trip started out that way...Greg

[diesel don]

I've called him several times today as our cell phones register it as local calls. The latest is that some, less that able, mechanic thought it was glo plugs (go figure). They have better people on it now and are working the fuel filter, fuel line ideas.

He actually let me hear it crank over the phone and it sounded horrible. Like metal on metal and slow and painful. Later however, he indicated that they took a 3rd battery and the car started. As it did so, it was running rough and not sounding right. The mechanic was going to try looking at the timing chain to see if it jumped, etc.

The seller is sure sticking by and has had several people in to look at it. At least that is comforting.

Don

[240 Ed]

Wow, the purchase from hell, this is really too bad. Sounds like the seller is an honest person though, and has gone to lengths for you most wouldn't.

Is it possible a gas engine starter was fitted to this engine?
I don't know if this is possible, but might be why it is hard to start.

[diesel don]

This soap opera gets worse all the time. Apparently you guys that wanted to start with fuel issues were right.

After the 3rd mechanic showed up, he said the problem was that there was "gas" instead of diesel in the fuel tank. Of course, many things started to make sense at that point. The car had run after purchase and run well for two miles. It stalled out one mile after filling.

My friend who already owns a diesel states that because he was at a new station, he smelled the nozzle of the diesel pump before filling. He even went back to the station and replayed everything in his mind so he wouldn't go crazy.

Entering his third day, the tank has been drained and the lines purged but the spitting and sputtering has not cleared. The car has now been towed to the Mercedes shop and hopefully will be cleared to run today.

All the expenses acrued are now in his court assuming that it was his error, yet its a little wierd as well. I feel badly for him and his daughter as this was supposed to be a cool trip.

Hopefully, it'll have a good ending. As we all know, a few days of traveling across the country with a good car can bring back the smiles. And this is especially true of us who live up here in the frozen tundra.

Don

[leathermang]

Don, thanks for the update.... That poor seller... everything working fine as far as he knows when he turns it over and bingo the roof falls in... and there is always the assumed implication that he did not disclose something before the sale.. I hope everyone recovers from this quickly and completely..Greg

[diesel don]

The final chapter....

The gas station and credit card company determined that it was indeed diesel that my friend pumped in so there was no operator error.

The mechanic at the Mercedes shop determined that the oil pump was not pumping oil (remember the oil pressure gauge not working?). Therefore, he contends that the car had pre-existing problems or that they began once the car sat for 2 months in storage.

The seller offered my friend only $500 back which shows you something. There are some other shady things that don't make sense as well.

Bottom line: huge bummer for my buddy who is currently in touch with some other ebay auctions and close to another deal but obviously with a huge loss.

He sends his thanks to all who offered advice along the way.

End of Book....

Don

[loubapache]

I am very sorry to hear that, Don.

[tcane]

What a bad deal! Sorry to hear your friend spent all the time and money to go to L.A. for a bad car, more so he only got $500 back. What I can't believe is that he is going after other cars sold on eBay. Unless the car can be inspected first, I would avoid buying on eBay.

eBay used to have insurance available with a maximum of $300 available. You should have your friend check into eBay's insurance to see if he can recover some of his loss.

Buying on eBay is a serious "buyer beware" experience even with sellers with 100's and even 1,000's of positive feedbacks. I've taken serious issue with eBay's lack of mandatory condition disclosure requirements (unlike their half.com operation) with no results.

Good Luck!
Tom