Bill: It don't matter to me whether the grill drippings are in with the oil or not, as long as there is no WATER in it. I hate all the extra Pain invoved in "drying" the oil first. The only difference is that BD made from actual "hard at room temp" grease is that it has a higher gell point than the "liquid" at room temp. stuff does. It makes about a 15°F difference in gell point on the average. So I run the heavier stuff in the summer only.

Don: I'm about 40 minutes from Rockford. In fact it's getting to be time for me to make regular trips over that way. ( steelhead fishing) I'll see if I can kick loose some free time and maybe we can meet somewhere or something. I actually bought my Racor filter ( cleaneable) from a place in Rockford. ( It was the closest Racor dealer). My daughter put up a simple web page that shows my first processor that I made and has some explaination as to the way it works. I'll have to see if I can still find the address. www.virtue.nu/biodiesel/ found it! The page loads a little slow, but it gives you an idea of what's going on. Mostly made from stuff I had laying around.

I have 7 diesels of my own (that I wont let anyone else work on) plus I have a few friends who bring theirs over here for me to work on...and I still do repairs on the Red Baron ( Rabbit on the web page) that I sold last summer. All together I think there is .....17 ( including a smelly old GMC Suburban) Other than my Ford dually and the Suburban the rest are all German!!! Let me know what you think about getting together sometime...Tom

fryerpowered:

Thanks for the info about your cost to make bio diesel. Actually, I should say the profit you're making since you're being paid to haul off the old grease!

In today's newspaper was a nationally syndicated Q&A column entitled "Click and Clack" written by Tom & Ray Magliozzi. This column answers automotive related question posed by readers. This column discussed bio diesel and very briefly stated that it eats gaskets and seals. Also, that the reader considering using bio diesel should contact the selling dealer to find out if the use of bio diesel would void the new vehicle warranty.

What's the story on the info contained in this column?

Thanks,
Tom

__________________
America: Land of the Free!

1977 300D: 300,000+ miles

American Honda: Factory Trained Technician & Honor Grad.
Formerly:
Shop Foreman;
Technical Advisor to Am. Honda;
Supervisor of Maintenance largest tree care co. in US for offices in Tex.

There is some fact to this... ANY residual methanol will in fact eat any and all natural rubber gaskets and seals. To combat this you can either replace these with Viton or teflon parts. Rubber hoses can be replaced with "flouroelastomer" hoses, thus solving the problem. There is of course another way! You can just wash your biodiesel There are a lot of methods out there for doing this ranging from a simple water wash to more complex acid washes. There is even a guy who really compicated it and came up with a two stage process whereas the oil is esterfied and then transesterfied. ( acid reaction and then the normal "transesterfication" process. For me that takes too long, I use over 40 gallons of fuel per week and don't have the storage space to have a bunch of tanks sitting around in various stages of washing. I do on occasion wash some of my fuel though. You see the Ford has rubber componants in the injectors themselves and I don't want to spend the money to rebuild them right now, so I wash what I use in the truck.

On the Mercedes, I've just replaced the rubber lines. NO, I used cheap rubber hoses and I just change them when they start to break-down. On my TD I will probably change over to the flouroelastomer hoses. I believe you can use "tygon" as well.

VW on the other hand is warrented from the factory to use biodiesel. They have been made to withstand "unwashed" biodiesel since about 1990. The older ones can have the I/P's rebuilt using the newer seal kits thus upgrading them to the new standard

I don't worry much about the rubber deterioration, I keep extra fuel line on hand. ( all the VW's , Mercedes and my 6.9l Navistar all use the same little balance lines between the injectors) What is more of a concern to me is everytime I switch an older car over to biodiesel I have to buiy some extra filters because it "super cleans" the whole fuel sytem, all that crud goes to the filter. Tom

fryerpowered:

Thanks for the info.

__________________
America: Land of the Free!

1977 300D: 300,000+ miles

American Honda: Factory Trained Technician & Honor Grad.
Formerly:
Shop Foreman;
Technical Advisor to Am. Honda;
Supervisor of Maintenance largest tree care co. in US for offices in Tex.

fryerpowered,

What do you mean by washing the biodiesel with water?

Also, Tygon is not even remotely equivalent to Viton or Teflon. Tygon evolves HCl under high temp, exposure to light or pressure. It is a pretty lousy material from the perspective of rapid breakdown and product (like biodiesel) contamination. No longer used in medical industry, and can cause corrosion of metal tubing and the like under the clamp at the connection. Viton, on the other hand is much better, being more stable and resistant to chemical attack. For the amount of hose you need, the added cost of the Viton should be worthwhile. I believe Teflon is equally resistant chemical attack and will likely exude nothing deleterious to your fuel system. That choice is likely a price and availablility issue. Hope this helps, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Jim,

Washing of biodiesel can be done several ways. The most simple goes something like this:

The biodiesel is placed in a container about twice as large as the volume of fuel. You then gently spray water onto the fuel until you have about equal parts water and biodiesel. The water is settled and then drained off. This procedure is repeated about 2 or 3 times until the wash water is clear and has a pH around 7. This removes excess methanol and any salts or other contaminates.

Some people use more elaborate setups but this one seems to work well and not take too long.

Now if only I could find a car to try it out on....

Scott

Scott N.,

Thanks for the information. If I keep reading this stuff I may try to make some biodiesel for my cars. Kids that drive without paying for fuel sounds like a good idea to me. Thanks again, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

The more I read about bio-diesel, the more I am convinced that dino-diesel at $1.09/gal is not a bad deal. It's results are predictable and well understood by zillions of miles of experience.

To each his own.

__________________
1976 240D
1987 560SL
2007 E320 Bluetec
1998 C280 (now son’s car)
1982 240D Manual - Sold

I have been out on the Fl. trail for 4 days so I missed the questions about fuel economy and bio. What I have seen in my car is about 22 MPG mixed driving on bio vs 25-26 on dino fuel. Economy would probably be about equal if I washed the bio which would increase the energy content per gallon but also decrease the amount of fuel in the end result. Here in Fl I can get away with using 12% methanol in the summer, but not when the weather gets cooler.
The soap waste product is good for cleaning equipment, hands, etc. By adding lots more lye you can turn it into bar soap but it is stinky, black, and nasty looking stuff.

Hey Fryer.....

Sorry it took so long to get back with you. Out of town for the weekend on a youth retreat.
Kirk (r90skirk), Phil and I would enjoy getting a time to meet and talk with you. We have a bunch of questions and maybe we'll drag Bo down and get in the discussion. I've got three of these puppies but will never catch up with you. The alternative fuel stuff sounds way too interesting. Kirk and I are almost there.
With a shared experience of Michigan winters, we need your experience.

Maybe when it gets warmer so we can stand outside without freezing. Although this week has been incredible.....summer.....

Don

__________________
DAILY DRIVERS:
'84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's)
'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
'82 240D 229k (Matt's - Converted-300DT w/ 4 speed

Hey all,

You Michigan guys do realize that you have a commercial biodiesel pump opening in your backyard, don't you?

This is the address:

9050 Mi State Road 52
Manchester, MI
48158-9469, US

This is information from this thread at Fred's TDIclub

I took a look at the "greasel.com" website and was very impressed. I would love to be able to use SVO oil without making it into bio-diesel. The only thing I didn't like was the $400 price tag for the kit, considering my 300TD only cost $100 more than the kit!

fryerpower, where would the second tank go? In the trunk or is there room under the car? I'm assuming that all you would need is the valve switch (can probally get at the hardware store) and some extra fuel lines.

look foward to any replies.

~Sean Roland

I've read previous posts from Fryerpowered for a while now and am quite curious about this whole process. My main concern is actually obtaining the grease or oil. I don't own a truck and would hate to spill old grease in the back of my wagon - what do you guys use to haul the grease back home? And Fryerpowered, do you spin/bait cast or fly-fish for the steelies?

__________________
Dave
1995 C280
1999 Triumph Daytona 955I - my speed fix.
1982 300TD - Gone, but not forgotten.

I was down in Phoenix last saturday trying to buy some ready made bio-diesel. They were closed. I will have to go back during the week.(from Sedona). I'm a little concerned about the possiblilty of rubber hose/gasket break down. Could someone please give me a quick run-down from tank to IP of what should be replaced and if bio-diesel friendly hoses and gaskets are available for my 300 non-turbo? thanks, andy

This is my big worry. Anything rubber will be attacked by the methonol. There are numerous hoses that could be attacked by this junk!!! I hate the thought of changing every rubber hose on my car that contacts the fuel, and then finding out that there are rubber seals in the IP, the fuel gauge, or other component that I did not think about until I have destroyed something. I think too much of my car to risk saving a few pennies on the fuel.

__________________
1976 240D
1987 560SL
2007 E320 Bluetec
1998 C280 (now son’s car)
1982 240D Manual - Sold