Off-Road Diesel - Who Enforces That It Not Be Used Over The Road? - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

okto · #46 08-02-2011, 09:59 PM

I've been in cuffs for my First Amendment rights, so I don't really want to hear it.
If an officer of the law asks me to do something prohibited by the law, or to refrain from doing something permitted by the law, I will say something about it and politely refuse, as is my right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

No different than being in the Army

COMPLETELY different than being in the Army. I am not part of a chain of command. I am not a soldier. The officer who pulls me over is not my CO.
Everyone needs to remember that the police are not tasked with controlling the populace, they are tasked with keeping the peace and enforcing the law. It is their prerogative to use judgment in the application of the law, but their behavior is also guided and limited by that same law.

In most states, asking you to pop your gas cap without due cause (red staining, being seen filling up at the wrong pump, even to some extent a bumper sticker could be considered) is considered an unlawful search, just like asking you to open your trunk if you're pulled over for speeding. It wouldn't take much of an attorney to throw out the dip test results even if you are using farm diesel outside the course and scope of farm work.

boneheaddoctor · #47 08-02-2011, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okto

I've been in cuffs for my First Amendment rights, so I don't really want to hear it.
If an officer of the law asks me to do something prohibited by the law, or to refrain from doing something permitted by the law, I will say something about it and politely refuse, as is my right.

COMPLETELY different than being in the Army. I am not part of a chain of command. I am not a soldier. The officer who pulls me over is not my CO.
Everyone needs to remember that the police are not tasked with controlling the populace, they are tasked with keeping the peace and enforcing the law. It is their prerogative to use judgment in the application of the law, but their behavior is also guided and limited by that same law.

In most states, asking you to pop your gas cap without due cause (red staining, being seen filling up at the wrong pump, even to some extent a bumper sticker could be considered) is considered an unlawful search, just like asking you to open your trunk if you're pulled over for speeding. It wouldn't take much of an attorney to throw out the dip test results even if you are using farm diesel outside the course and scope of farm work.

Keep telling that to yourself......those of us that are past 30 know better.

Because with that attitude....you can't be much older than early 20's.

Want to make a cop WANT to prove what he CAN do......get cocky with him and try spouting off about your rights....he CAN make you sit there for an hour while he gets a warrant....and he will get one....then he will take his merry little time going through every square inch of your car, which takes a lot more of your time. And he WILL make it a point to cite you for any and every thing he finds wrong. And if he does also find the chemical tracer from off-road fuel....you can count on the book being thrown at you.

But then what do I know....I've beaten 7 radar and Lidar tickets in the courtroom, and beat several others where he "paced me" with his car....never had to pay a single equipment violation I ever received....and I even drove away once without current tags...license or Insurance after being pulled over by a state trooper. Another time I even got to drive home falling down drunk once after the cop told me to go straight home and he better not see me again that night. And another time with an open beer in my hand in the car.

So.......how much do I really know anyway....except I know how to disagree with a cop and NOT get cuffed.

Getting away with something means you DO NOT want to draw even MORE attention to yourself, and getting him to move on to someplace ELSE.

w123fanman · #48 08-02-2011, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Keep telling that to yourself......those of us that are past 30 know better.

Because with that attitude....you can't be much older than early 20's.

Want to make a cop WANT to prove what he CAN do......get cocky with him and try spouting off about your rights....he CAN make you sit there for an hour while he gets a warrant....and he will get one....then he will take his merry little time going through every square inch of your car, which takes a lot more of your time. And he WILL make it a point to cite you for any and every thing he finds wrong. And if he does also find the chemical tracer from off-road fuel....you can count on the book being thrown at you.

But then what do I know....I've beaten 7 radar and Lidar tickets in the courtroom, and beat several others where he "paced me" with his car....never had to pay a single equipment violation I ever received....and I even drove away once without current tags...license or Insurance after being pulled over by a state trooper. Another time I even got to drive home falling down drunk once after the cop told me to go straight home and he better not see me again that night. And another time with an open beer in my hand in the car.

So.......how much do I really know anyway....except I know how to disagree with a cop and NOT get cuffed.

Getting away with something means you DO NOT want to draw even MORE attention to yourself, and getting him to move on to someplace ELSE.

All of this is true, but I wouldn't trust a cop to search my car anyway. He could break things, scratch the paint, or even plant something in that case (it happens all the time). Yea you might get away with a lesser fine but just don't be rude when the cop is there. Honestly if you know nothing on your car is a violation, then consent to the search but otherwise don't do it. A PO could have left a joint under the seat or something for all you know, and the drug sentences are outrageous in the US (not that I do drugs). Also if you are doing nothing wrong in the first place you won't be pulled over. I personally don't find it alright for someone like you to be drinking and driving, since #1 it is against the law and #2 is extremely dangerous for you and other motorists. My thing to you is yea you have a point but if you feel the need to drink and drive, you need to go to AA.

boneheaddoctor · #49 08-03-2011, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w123fanman

All of this is true, but I wouldn't trust a cop to search my car anyway. He could break things, scratch the paint, or even plant something in that case (it happens all the time). Yea you might get away with a lesser fine but just don't be rude when the cop is there. Honestly if you know nothing on your car is a violation, then consent to the search but otherwise don't do it. A PO could have left a joint under the seat or something for all you know, and the drug sentences are outrageous in the US (not that I do drugs). Also if you are doing nothing wrong in the first place you won't be pulled over. I personally don't find it alright for someone like you to be drinking and driving, since #1 it is against the law and #2 is extremely dangerous for you and other motorists. My thing to you is yea you have a point but if you feel the need to drink and drive, you need to go to AA.

Really.........any idea what year THAT happened?....here is a hint, it was like 27 years ago. That makes a world of difference. People used to smoke at their desks at work then too.

And it was mentioned to stress the point I was making. Cops have a lot of discretion and much of the "trouble" young people seem to have follow them has more to do with an attitude they know everything than it does what they actually did to attract the attention.

In a nutshell.....don't make the cop want to prove what he CAN do to you, and he usually won't try to. He'd like to get done and move on just as much as you would like him to if you are nice enough to him. Its not all about biting your lip...but avoiding looking like you are biting your lip as well.

A few really like making examples of people that get smart with them....a lot actually. Newbies from the academy as well as women cops are the worst. Both of those seem to have chips on their shoulders and something to prove. Be extra careful around them.

Vent after he is a mile down the road and driving away. Like I said.....I had a few State cop friends over the years....they offered up that advice over a beer when they were off duty. Yeah..they rode Harley-Davidsons off duty too....same as me.

Take the advice or leave it....but I hope you take it....it can save you a lot of grief over the years if you do.

strelnik · #50 08-03-2011, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okto

Getting nicked for not paying the taxes on fuel you produced yourself is some bull****. Does the government collect the sales tax you didn't pay on things you made yourself? No. There's no legal precedent for taxing the theoretical purchase of one thing which has been replaced with another.

I'd tell the fuzz to go soak his or her head, and get a badge number.

If you make food at home, instead of buying a meal at a restaurant, do you have to pay taxes?
What about on your garden?

This starts to get ridiculous. No-- it IS ridiculous

But wait!

You have an electric car that you charge using solar panels. Neither the tax man nor the oil companies profit.
OOOOOOH

boneheaddoctor · #51 08-03-2011, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik

If you make food at home, instead of buying a meal at a restaurant, do you have to pay taxes?
What about on your garden?

This starts to get ridiculous. No-- it IS ridiculous

But wait!

You have an electric car that you charge using solar panels. Neither the tax man nor the oil companies profit.
OOOOOOH

Trust me.....I bet some bureaucrat is in his cave right now trying to find a way to tax those too.

bigblockchev · #52 08-03-2011, 10:45 AM

So far I see a lot of discussion of unrelated off topic stuff and hearsay. What I asked was has it ever happened to you. Being stopped and YOUR fuel tank dipped. I was curious to see if this is an urban/rural myth or a real threat that someone had encountered. If so what was the procedure and what were the circumstances. I want to know what we have to fear or avoid as an assistance to myself or forum members.

boneheaddoctor · #53 08-03-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblockchev

So far I see a lot of discussion of unrelated off topic stuff and hearsay. What I asked was has it ever happened to you. Being stopped and YOUR fuel tank dipped. I was curious to see if this is an urban/rural myth or a real threat that someone had encountered. If so what was the procedure and what were the circumstances. I want to know what we have to fear or avoid as an assistance to myself or forum members.

Not happened to me.....but my Uncle had a neighbor down the street he knew real well (close friend of my uncle) who was stopped, dipped, caught and fined..... Totalled over $100,000 and the poor old guy....he was in his late 60's didn't have that in assets INCLUDING his house.... don't know whatever happened in the long term because my uncle passed away about a year later.

And several of my other uncles with diesel pickups have been stopped and dip checked. They expected to be stopped so never ran #2 in them...ever.

And the person that told me about the chemical marker used in the dye ....was in college majoring in Chemistry.

Zacharias · #54 08-03-2011, 11:20 AM

Let's try some common sense here.

In my experience, this stuff varies greatly according to what state or province you happen to be in. And, furthermore, the sort of area in which you live.

If you live in a rural area with lots of farmers or agribusiness folks who have their own 'off-road' tanks, it's more likely that either the police or (more likely in Canada) the provincial mobile transport enforcement inspectors (the guys in quasi-cruisers who pull over trucks on the road for spot checks) will either systematically or occasionally in sweeps do roadside checks.

In an urban area, where you might find an offroad pump at the outskirts of town? Not too likely, unless you happen to be unlucky enough to be filing up as a law enforcement vehicle rolls in for a fillup.

However, I would be interested to see a filling station with an off-road pump actually sell to someone rolling up in a diesel car. I am certain the potential fine to them would be a heavy deterrent.

I can tell you that where I live, even the farmers are careful. I sold my first 300sd to a farmer and I mentioned, half-jokingly, when he delivered the cheque that he would no doubt be saving a pile of cash by filling up from a farm bulk tank.

His reply was more or less: "Are you effing nuts? As soon as the SAAQ (prov. ministry) inspectors see a diesel car or pickup on a farm, you can expect spot checks."

w123fanman · #55 08-03-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Really.........any idea what year THAT happened?....here is a hint, it was like 27 years ago. That makes a world of difference. People used to smoke at their desks at work then too.

And it was mentioned to stress the point I was making. Cops have a lot of discretion and much of the "trouble" young people seem to have follow them has more to do with an attitude they know everything than it does what they actually did to attract the attention.

In a nutshell.....don't make the cop want to prove what he CAN do to you, and he usually won't try to. He'd like to get done and move on just as much as you would like him to if you are nice enough to him. Its not all about biting your lip...but avoiding looking like you are biting your lip as well.

A few really like making examples of people that get smart with them....a lot actually. Newbies from the academy as well as women cops are the worst. Both of those seem to have chips on their shoulders and something to prove. Be extra careful around them.

Vent after he is a mile down the road and driving away. Like I said.....I had a few State cop friends over the years....they offered up that advice over a beer when they were off duty. Yeah..they rode Harley-Davidsons off duty too....same as me.

Take the advice or leave it....but I hope you take it....it can save you a lot of grief over the years if you do.

I'm sorry about that, I have a few alcoholic uncles, one of which almost died in a crash while intoxicated, and its just not something I approve of, but yea sorry about that. But yea I see what you are saying about not being cocky, which is common sense many people don't know about, especially talking to cops, their boss, or at a job interview

boneheaddoctor · #56 08-03-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w123fanman

I'm sorry about that, I have a few alcoholic uncles, one of which almost died in a crash while intoxicated, and its just not something I approve of, but yea sorry about that. But yea I see what you are saying about not being cocky, which is common sense many people don't know about, especially talking to cops, their boss, or at a job interview

Nor do I.....the story behind that is long....not really relevant to this thread. But needless to say....I was sober when I got in the car before that happened 15 minutes earlier and it was an uneventful drive home. And no...I'm only a social drinker....and not often either.

Good you see what I'm saying.....its not just words....but body language just as much. Lot of young people...guys particularly, just don't grasp the concept that actions can say things even more strongly than words can.

And I was a MAJOR hothead in my teen years. Believe it or not...I've mellowed out with age. Learned a lot of lessons the hard way in my 20's. Hoped to spare someone else from having to learn them that way too.

Orv · #57 08-03-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w123fanman

A PO could have left a joint under the seat or something for all you know, and the drug sentences are outrageous in the US (not that I do drugs).

Depends on what state you get stopped in, these days. And sometimes on which agency catches you.

I'm reminded of the old Steve Martin bit: "Boy, I wouldn't want to get caught with a joint in California these days. You can get a ticket for that."

bustedbenz · #58 08-04-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Not happened to me.....but my Uncle had a neighbor down the street he knew real well (close friend of my uncle) who was stopped, dipped, caught and fined..... Totalled over $100,000 and the poor old guy....he was in his late 60's didn't have that in assets INCLUDING his house.... don't know whatever happened in the long term because my uncle passed away about a year later.

And several of my other uncles with diesel pickups have been stopped and dip checked. They expected to be stopped so never ran #2 in them...ever.

And the person that told me about the chemical marker used in the dye ....was in college majoring in Chemistry.

All automotive diesel is #2, whether dyed or undyed. Just wanted to clarify.

Here's vstech's thread about being dipped in Charlotte.
HOLY!!! I got pulled over in NC to dip my tank!

boneheaddoctor · #59 08-04-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

All automotive diesel is #2, whether dyed or undyed. Just wanted to clarify.

Here's vstech's thread about being dipped in Charlotte.
HOLY!!! I got pulled over in NC to dip my tank!

Didn't say it wasn't.....the differences are additives in some localities and the dye/chemical marker for the untaxed stuff. Your engine doesn't know the difference.

I've never been dip checked in a car. (or my truck but I rarely drive that).....and the people I do know that have been were in pickup trucks or larger.

But that post shows cars do get stopped occasionally. Apparently Officer Friendly got his monthly quota of 1 mph over the limit tickets for the locals and random tickets for the innocent out-of-staters.

bustedbenz · #60 08-04-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Didn't say it wasn't.....the differences are additives in some localities and the dye/chemical marker for the untaxed stuff. Your engine doesn't know the difference.

Sorry for the confusion. I was replying to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

They expected to be stopped so never ran #2 in them...ever.

I knew what you meant, I just didn't want somebody to get confused later. (Besides me)