Off-Road Diesel - Who Enforces That It Not Be Used Over The Road? - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

boneheaddoctor · #61 08-04-2011, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

Sorry for the confusion. I was replying to:
I knew what you meant, I just didn't want somebody to get confused later. (Besides me)

Yeah...I can see how some people might get confused.

Usually #2 is referring to heating oil.....or off road diesel (the ones with dye...)

If someone just says Diesel....they generally mean the undyed stuff....

You are absolutely correct they are both the same thing up until the dye is added and any EPA required additives are tossed in for the over the road stuff. Its mostly semantics and excise taxes that are at issue.

There is a winter and summer over the road fuel blend.(so it doesn't gel in the cold)....but as far as I know just the one for heating oil.

For someone that might wonder then what is #1......well that's known as Kerosene.

Marvelicious · #62 08-08-2011, 03:23 AM

Sorry to push this thread further off its tracks, but I just can't leave the cop worship alone. I guess I'm a little wrong headed, and get more so every year, but I'm past thirty and I'm more than happy to tell a cop to get bent if he wants to search me or my fuel tank. Yes they can play their games and make my life difficult, won't be the first time. That kind of crap is exactly why I have very little respect for cops in general - if they people in charge of enforcing the rules can't be bothered to follow them, why the hell should I? ...and I have certainly never "wet myself" while being hassled by a cop.

Don't get me wrong, I know a couple who are decent guys. Probably many of the ones who have behaved as *******s to me are decent guys off the job as well, but I just don't respond to the wanna-be intimidating posture they all seem to adopt. A little courtesy would go a lot further with me.

Then again, I probably put them on their guard as soon as they see me - a big, bearded, long hair. I must look like a threat, and like I'm probably guilty of something.

boneheaddoctor · #63 08-08-2011, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvelicious

Sorry to push this thread further off its tracks, but I just can't leave the cop worship alone. I guess I'm a little wrong headed, and get more so every year, but I'm past thirty and I'm more than happy to tell a cop to get bent if he wants to search me or my fuel tank. Yes they can play their games and make my life difficult, won't be the first time. That kind of crap is exactly why I have very little respect for cops in general - if they people in charge of enforcing the rules can't be bothered to follow them, why the hell should I? ...and I have certainly never "wet myself" while being hassled by a cop.

Don't get me wrong, I know a couple who are decent guys. Probably many of the ones who have behaved as *******s to me are decent guys off the job as well, but I just don't respond to the wanna-be intimidating posture they all seem to adopt. A little courtesy would go a lot further with me.

Then again, I probably put them on their guard as soon as they see me - a big, bearded, long hair. I must look like a threat, and like I'm probably guilty of something.

Its not about HAVING respect for them.....its about SHOWING respect for them. Two separate things. You don't have to like someone to be respectful to them.

And that can be the difference between them moving on quickly....or nit picking to find something to cite you for, and odds are if they are looking for something....they will find something.

Otherwise known as "Pick your battles carefully" because the odds are stacked against you. Besides....its also about if you can't show respect you won't get any in return. I don't disagree there are a lot of them with chips on their shoulders, I've seen more than my fair share of them.....what I am saying is don't give them a reason.

Junkman · #64 08-08-2011, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Its not about HAVING respect for them.....its about SHOWING respect for them. Two separate things. You don't have to like someone to be respectful to them.

And that can be the difference between them moving on quickly....or nit picking to find something to cite you for, and odds are if they are looking for something....they will find something.

Otherwise known as "Pick your battles carefully" because the odds are stacked against you. Besides....its also about if you can't show respect you won't get any in return. I don't disagree there are a lot of them with chips on their shoulders, I've seen more than my fair share of them.....what I am saying is don't give them a reason.

"No your Honor I wasn't trying to show my contempt for the court. I was trying to hide it."

Marvelicious · #65 08-08-2011, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Its not about HAVING respect for them.....its about SHOWING respect for them. Two separate things. You don't have to like someone to be respectful to them...
...Besides....its also about if you can't show respect you won't get any in return.

That is a two way street. Maybe its my nature, but I cannot respect anyone who does not show respect to me. As far as I'm concerned, the burden of bringing courtesy to the table is on them, as the one who has initiated the conversation. The trouble is that they feel that they are entitled to the respect simply because of their job, then when they abuse that authority they fall back on the "I'm only human" excuse. The fact that we allow them certain "privlages" in the pursuit of their job means that we expect them to hold themselves to a higher standard.

I understand about picking battles, and you're right, I probably would just let the whole thing slide if I had important commitments elsewhere. Still, my stubborn side will pop up at the most inconvenient times. I've probably had more than my share of interactions with the boys in blue over the years - what can I say, I was a bit rowdy in my younger days and many of my oldest freinds are felons - and I've found that they tend to act a lot like schoolyard bullies. If you don't assert yourself, they think they have an easy mark and walk all over you.

OTOH, Its all pretty moot, since now that I think of it, I haven't been pulled over in almost a decade.

boneheaddoctor · #66 08-08-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvelicious

That is a two way street. Maybe its my nature, but I cannot respect anyone who does not show respect to me. As far as I'm concerned, the burden of bringing courtesy to the table is on them, as the one who has initiated the conversation. The trouble is that they feel that they are entitled to the respect simply because of their job, then when they abuse that authority they fall back on the "I'm only human" excuse. The fact that we allow them certain "privlages" in the pursuit of their job means that we expect them to hold themselves to a higher standard.

I understand about picking battles, and you're right, I probably would just let the whole thing slide if I had important commitments elsewhere. Still, my stubborn side will pop up at the most inconvenient times. I've probably had more than my share of interactions with the boys in blue over the years - what can I say, I was a bit rowdy in my younger days and many of my oldest freinds are felons - and I've found that they tend to act a lot like schoolyard bullies. If you don't assert yourself, they think they have an easy mark and walk all over you.

OTOH, Its all pretty moot, since now that I think of it, I haven't been pulled over in almost a decade.

OH, I completely understand what you are saying ( many of them ARE that bad)......and another way of saying what I was would be.....arguing with a cop (and that includes body language) is akin to bringing a nerf sword to a gunfight. You can't win....and if you end up in handcuffs or get a citation....you didn't win. You can say whatever you want about him after he or she is long gone....and I do....but the entire point is to get them to move on without making them want to make any point to just because they can.

I've been pulled over and written up when I was younger fror some pretty stupid things......like improper passing at 11:30 pm when I didn't see another car much less pass them in 20 miles. And had the Female State trooper launch into a verbal tirade when I asked what kind of vehicle I passed.

Yeah I beat that in court but I hadn't learned to deal with it from the beginning or I might not have gotten the citation. I just put on my best smile and am careful about what I say and HOW I say it.....because they WILL bring up any smart remarks you make in court later.

Also as I said.....I've actually gotten verbal warnings after being pulled over at 20+ over the limit before....which is reckless driving I could have been cited for. I don't think I would have gotten off so easy if he detected any attitude that night, and a few years later from a county cop.....different road, middle of the day different state. Even if they may say different....they have a lot of leeway and don't decide until they walk up to your door. Initial impressions mean everything.

I don't get pulled over that often......and its less as I get older.....the last ticket I beat in court...was for LIDAR.... was over 20 over the limit....and as nice as I was I still got the citation....but the cop was unusually cordial (as in nice and respectful)....a point I brought up in court before I proceeded to explain how he got an inaccurate reading....(It helps to have an electronic Engineering degree and know how this stuff works)...so when I won the case....the cop shook my hand on the way out (I was his last case) and we had a nice conversation on the way out of the court....he was not at all upset he lost. He also wasn't going to set up a speed trap on that section of road again either.

But I also have years of dealing with Police and Paramilitary Police in Europe..(mostly as friends)..these are guys that carry machine guns (Steyr TMP in one case Heckler & Koch MP5 in the other)...and don't account for ammo rounds.

These guys will spray your car if you run from a stop. Totally different rules of engagement.

ForcedInduction · #67 08-09-2011, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaulieub

Can/do the local police or state police monitor this or is it strictly enforced by the Feds?

Local or state police as well as DOT. Red diesel is strictly a tax issue. The EPA isn't involved since red diesel is identical to road diesel except the dye. To get high sulfur would require filling at a rail yard or marina (Until 2014 when they get ULSD too).

The biggest issue is this common lack of judgement and morality as demonstrated in a post above.

Quote:

OTOH, Its all pretty moot, since now that I think of it, I haven't been pulled over in almost a decade.

That kind of mentality is extremely dangerous. If you can justify stealing taxes with the "not been caught" excuse, what reason is there to not apply that mentality to something like pickpocketing, shoplifting or burglary? After all, you haven't been caught and nobody gets hurt!

freesoul · #68 08-10-2011, 11:44 AM

Never had my fuel checked, and if I was ever asked to I would answer as I do to any search inquiry: I do not consent to searches, am I free to go?

You better have probably cause to search me, or anything you find gets thrown out in court.

I can't believe how many sheeple are ready to willingly waive their Constitutional rights at the drop of a hat. Whatever your reason is for doing this- it sucks.

boneheaddoctor · #69 08-10-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freesoul

Never had my fuel checked, and if I was ever asked to I would answer as I do to any search inquiry: I do not consent to searches, am I free to go?

You better have probably cause to search me, or anything you find gets thrown out in court.

I can't believe how many sheeple are ready to willingly waive their Constitutional rights at the drop of a hat. Whatever your reason is for doing this- it sucks.

They can hold you there until they get a search warrant....and they can come up with a valid excuse that can get one issued, I know enough state cops to know that for a fact.....maybe you have all the time in the world......most of us don't. And then you are begging for them to find anything wrong they can write you up on.....but like I said...if you want to bring suspicion down on you...then act suspicious. Want to get cited for something ....start telling a cop what he can't do.

Getting a ticket means you lose the fight.....not win it....getting locked up or held up means you lost the fight, not won it...

Winning it is getting him to look someplace else as quickly as possible before he finds something stupid to cite you on.

freesoul · #70 08-10-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

They can hold you there until they get a search warrant....and they can come up with a valid excuse that can get one issued, I know enough state cops to know that for a fact.....maybe you have all the time in the world......most of us don't. And then you are begging for them to find anything wrong they can write you up on.....but like I said...if you want to bring suspicion down on you...then act suspicious. Want to get cited for something ....start telling a cop what he can't do.

Getting a ticket means you lose the fight.....not win it....getting locked up or held up means you lost the fight, not won it...

Winning it is getting him to look someplace else as quickly as possible before he finds something stupid to cite you on.

They can't hold you indefinitely, you need to read up on 'Terry stops' and stop misinforming people. Cops think they can do all sorts of things that the courts have continually ruled against, and its apparent you've been listening to too many cops.

Asserting your Constitutional protections under the 4th and 5th amendments do not construe reasonable suspicion that you are engaged in a crime. Be polite but firm in dealing with police, don't ever consent to searches and don't answer a cops questions. Once you calmly assert your rights it completely changes the tone of the police in any encounter.

www.flexyourrights.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
watch part 2 also

sixto · #71 08-10-2011, 01:15 PM

How is a fuel check stop different from a sobriety checkpoint or airport security screening?

Sixto
87 300D

boneheaddoctor · #72 08-10-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freesoul

They can't hold you indefinitely, you need to read up on 'Terry stops' and stop misinforming people. Cops think they can do all sorts of things that the courts have continually ruled against, and its apparent you've been listening to too many cops.

Asserting your Constitutional protections under the 4th and 5th amendments do not construe reasonable suspicion that you are engaged in a crime. Be polite but firm in dealing with police, don't ever consent to searches and don't answer a cops questions. Once you calmly assert your rights it completely changes the tone of the police in any encounter.

www.flexyourrights.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
watch part 2 also

YOU have a lot of trouble with the police don't you? Arguments that only have a place in the courtroom aren't going to do you any good along the highway....in fact.....they are going to cause you problems.

I've had two different state cops as neighbors over the years in two different states....both of them were SOB's. The stories I could tell you...One eventually retired as a lieutenant. The other I have no idea after he moved.

I had a couple others that were friends......I got my advice from those.

Taunting cops is going to cause you a lot of grief....because you WILL be begging for it. And the exercise isn't see how much of a hornets nest you can stir up without getting stung....but getting past the hornets nest without them noticing you.

Trust me....they are human....get in their face...they WILL push back.

No different than someone knocking on my front door....and claiming they have a 1st amendment right to yell at me......well it goes both ways...and they shouldn't be surprised when a fist gets planted in their nose or a gun in their left nostril.

What I am saying is.......just because you might have the RIGHT to do something....doesn't mean its the smart thing to do. Or the best idea at the time.

Some people might be stubborn enough to sit in jail to make a point.....most people would rather not. Myself, I like to fly under the radar.

Orv · #73 08-10-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

How is a fuel check stop different from a sobriety checkpoint or airport security screening?

Good question. The legality of sobriety checkpoints has been affirmed by the Supreme Court; but so has the legality of refusing a physical search of a car without probable cause, except for some specific cases like border crossings. A fuel check would seem to be in a gray area between the two, to me; it would be interesting to know if the courts have ever addressed that issue specifically. The answer may vary from state to state.

Orv · #74 08-10-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

YOU have a lot of trouble with the police don't you? Arguments that only have a place in the courtroom aren't going to do you any good along the highway....in fact.....they are going to cause you problems.

I've had two different state cops as neighbors over the years in two different states....both of them were SOB's.

Taunting cops is going to cause you a lot of grief....because you WILL be begging for it.

On the other hand, if no one stands up to them they'll just usurp more and more power for themselves, until we effectively have no rights. You may not want to be the one taking the risk of standing up to abuses of power, but I for one am glad someone is.

Note that he never suggested being rude or insulting to a cop; it's perfectly possible for someone to assert their rights while being polite.

boneheaddoctor · #75 08-10-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orv

On the other hand, if no one stands up to them they'll just usurp more and more power for themselves, until we effectively have no rights. You may not want to be the one taking the risk of standing up to abuses of power, but I for one am glad someone is.

Note that he never suggested being rude or insulting to a cop; it's perfectly possible for someone to assert their rights while being polite.

And a 20 year old might think that works......while a 50 year old knows its asking for a confrontation and a lot of aggravation is going to result from it..and if ANYTHING is out of order you are going to get written up.