Dad is interested in buying another diesel

[w123fanman]

My dad has recently came to me for help with a possible purchase in the near future: a safe, reliable, fuel efficient car for my mom to drive to work. She currently drives a 1996 Mercury Grand Marquis LS on a 45 minute commute from one side of Metro Atlanta to the other. This Mercury is a great vehicle but it has 170,000 miles on it and only gets about 21 mpg because of its immense size. So my dad talked with our mechanic (who works on our Sprinter, the non-running 240D, and the Mercury) and he said his favorite Mercedes after the W123 diesel was the W201, liking both the gasoline and the diesel variants. After I explained to my dad some of the basic stuff I learned about the 190D from this forum he looked around a bit and found the prices he was seeing on craigslist and ebay motors for 190D's were very reasonable. So this is the question posed: Does the 190D meet all of the requirements stated above (safe, reliable, efficient) and are there any other cars at this price range ($1000-$5000) that do those three things better? Also between the different variants of the 190D, what is that average fuel economy?

[t walgamuth]

The 190d is a fine car. Safe reliable and economical if in good fettle. Finding one good enough to put your mom in for a daily commute though at under 5000 might be a challenge as they are not new cars any more.

I would think finding a nice used Honda or Toyota might be easier. Though at that price range you may have reliability issues too.

Actually any car in that price range will be likely to have issues.

If you could find a really nice 240d that might fill the bill better than any alternative, though finding a really nice one will also be a challenge at that price point.

[ROLLGUY]

The 190D with a 2.2 and automatic would not be a good choice IMO. The small non-turbo engine and automatic is not such a good combination. If you can find a 2.5, that would be much better. The 2.2 with a five speed would be the second best choice for a 190D. I was able to get a minimum of 32 MPG with my 190D 5 spd, and have heard them getting close to 40 sometimes. The gassers have plenty of power, but not sure if MPG would be a lot better than the Mercury. The later cars have ABS and air bags, so they would be more on the safer side than the earlier ones. You might want to look into a 300D (124) with the 2.5 (91ish?). They are a little bigger, and have all the safety features that the later 201's have.

[Skippy]

170,000 miles is just getting started for a GMQ. With proper care they last as long as a diesel Benz. There may be something wrong with the car for it to only get 21 mpg. If you look over on crownvic.net, you should be able to find some tips for what to look at. There are people getting 30 mpg highway from those cars.

OTOH, a 190D also meets your requirements and they have been known to break 40 mpg with the manual transmission. I would seek out the rare 1987 190D 2.5 turbo 5-speed. A 240D in Atlanta traffic would not be satisfactory for most people. A W123 or 124 300D would work just fine as well, though the overall fuel cost might not be much better than the Grand Marquis, considering it runs on RUG which is considerably cheaper than diesel.

[oldiesel]

These are old cars you are talking about and finding a really good one is not easy.When you do find a good one it still will probably have as many or more miles than Mom`s Mercury.I hav 2 MB diesel cars and really enjoy them but i also greatly enjoy working on them and they never let me down there is always something to do on one or the other.Maybe a door window not working ar an A/C vent control pod leaking,or the wiper coming on all by itself,or the belt tensioner rattling and on and on and i enjoy it all.Nothing that is going to leave Mom by the side of the road but can be a real annoyance to someone who is not an enthusiast.From what little i know of American cars that Mercury may be one of the least expensive to maintain,police fleets use them everywhere and as soon as the cops are done with them the taxi companies suck them right up at auctions and run them another 250,000 miles and if they were not durable and cheap to maintain no taxi company would have anything to do with them.Next time you drive up behind a taxi at a stoplight look closely at the left lower corner of the trunk lid and i bet you will see a little label there that says "police interceptor"and it still out there working every day after all the abuse its endured. Don

[vstech]

I don't know... going from a marquis to a 190 may be a pretty big step.
I'd go to a mid 90's 300D personally. nearly as good mileage, waaaay more power (unless you luck upon the turbo version...), and much roomier vehicle. also better refined, and much more solid a vehicle.
it should not be difficult to find one in that price range. aim for the high side of the price, and be sure it's checked out well before purchase. many things raise the cost of the cars... find one where everything is already done!

[ROLLGUY]

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

The 190D with a 2.2 and automatic would not be a good choice IMO. The small non-turbo engine and automatic is not such a good combination. If you can find a 2.5, that would be much better. The 2.2 with a five speed would be the second best choice for a 190D. I was able to get a minimum of 32 MPG with my 190D 5 spd, and have heard them getting close to 40 sometimes. The gassers have plenty of power, but not sure if MPG would be a lot better than the Mercury. The later cars have ABS and air bags, so they would be more on the safer side than the earlier ones. You might want to look into a 300D (124) with the 2.5 (91ish?). They are a little bigger, and have all the safety features that the later 201's have.

Originally Posted by Skippy

OTOH, a 190D also meets your requirements and they have been known to break 40 mpg with the manual transmission. I would seek out the rare 1987 190D 2.5 turbo 5-speed. A 240D in Atlanta traffic would not be satisfactory for most people. A W123 or 124 300D would work just fine as well, though the overall fuel cost might not be much better than the Grand Marquis, considering it runs on RUG which is considerably cheaper than diesel.

Originally Posted by vstech

I don't know... going from a marquis to a 190 may be a pretty big step.
I'd go to a mid 90's 300D personally. nearly as good mileage, waaaay more power (unless you luck upon the turbo version...), and much roomier vehicle. also better refined, and much more solid a vehicle.
it should not be difficult to find one in that price range. aim for the high side of the price, and be sure it's checked out well before purchase. many things raise the cost of the cars... find one where everything is already done!

Sounds like we all agree pretty much.

[LRazaitis]

I have a 1984 190D with the 5 speed trans. Really fun car to drive. Gets about 33-34 mpg around town and well over 40mpg on highway. Got a great deal on it, $600. I have seen some really nice ones go for overe $4000.

[w123fanman]

Well I don't think a 240D would be good enough for my mom and if it was we would just restore my dad's 240D. Our Mercury has seen better days and is in poor condition cosmetically and isn't too great mechanically because the scheduled maintenance on it was sometimes recorded as having happened but never actually did (this was when it was my grandfather's car). Now it runs on one tank premium, one tank regular alternating (on the suggestion of our mechanic) and it also burns oil. Just to sum it up, it was not taken proper care of therefore is not in great condition. I believe that it is not possible for it to get 30 mpg without going on a major weight loss program coupled with new engine/transmission control chips, grandparent like driving, and possibly different parts installed on the differentials and such. It's not a bad car but its not in very good condition (don't really want to go into details if possible), the interior is plasticy, and most importantly its not a diesel or a Mercedes or a combination of the two.
Reason we look at the 190D is obviously the attractive mpg. Now question is, how safe is it?

I also have been considering the 300D (either the W123 or W124) as my first car so it wouldn't be bad if we were to get one of those. I do know that the W124 is more fuel efficient and has more safety features and horsepower but I still would consider the W123. I will be on the look out for good deals and have our mechanic check the cars but I will probably need a basic checklist of what to look for on a W201 190D, W123 300D and a W124 300D if possible. My dad will be willing to pay a bit more for a car if he knows it is in good condition

[t walgamuth]

The 190 is safe enough in my book. I would be happy to put my mom or my wife in a good one. The 124 300d is nearly as economical and just as durable I suppose too. More gadgets to maintain on the 124 though.

I am suspect of claims of 30 mpg in a crown vic.

When I had my 95 chebby wagon all sorts of folks claimed 23 mpg with them but I could never break out of the teens no matter how I drove it.

[ROLLGUY]

Originally Posted by w123fanman

Reason we look at the 190D is obviously the attractive mpg. Now question is, how safe is it?

I also have been considering the 300D (either the W123 or W124) as my first car so it wouldn't be bad if we were to get one of those. I do know that the W124 is more fuel efficient and has more safety features and horsepower but I still would consider the W123. I will be on the look out for good deals and have our mechanic check the cars but I will probably need a basic checklist of what to look for on a W201 190D, W123 300D and a W124 300D if possible. My dad will be willing to pay a bit more for a car if he knows it is in good condition

The main question is your dad willing to drive a manual trans? If you are looking at safety features, an 86 or newer should have air bags and ABS. Don't look to win any races with the 2.2 either. The real hotrod would be the '87 with the 2.5 Turbo. I personally have never seen a manual in that year and model, but they may exist.

[w123fanman]

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

The main question is your dad willing to drive a manual trans? If you are looking at safety features, an 86 or newer should have air bags and ABS. Don't look to win any races with the 2.2 either. The real hotrod would be the '87 with the 2.5 Turbo. I personally have never seen a manual in that year and model, but they may exist.

Well both my mom and dad would drive a manual, I don't know if they prefer it though.

[Skippy]

There are people on CVN getting mileage that good. They mostly have the 2.73 rear end and a light foot, along with running tire pressures on the high side. As with our diesels, some of them seem to get better mileage than others under identical conditions. I had the earlier version of that platform with the old pushrod 5.0 and 3.08s. Over five years average was 18 and best was 24. Just slowing down to 70 got me over 21 highway consistently. The later ones have better aerodynamics and a more efficient 4.6 SOHC engine (that reminds me suspiciously of an M117 in appearance).

I've read that the '87 190D was the only Mercedes ever offered in the U.S. with a turbodiesel engine and a manual transmission.

I'm probably not the guy to ask about safety. I think a Kawasaki Ninja is plenty safe as long as you ride it right and look out for and anticipate the blind, stupid, suicidal, and homicidal.

[ROLLGUY]

Originally Posted by Skippy

I've read that the '87 190D was the only Mercedes ever offered in the U.S. with a turbodiesel engine and a manual transmission.

That would be a rare find, and probably the best choice for safety, power, and economy.

Originally Posted by Skippy

I think a Kawasaki Ninja is plenty safe as long as you ride it right and look out for and anticipate the blind, stupid, suicidal, and homicidal.

That would describe most of the driving public around here!

[t walgamuth]

I don't believe the turboed 190d was ever offered here with a stick. The ones that exist I believe were built by hobbiests.