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  #16  
Old 09-17-2011, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sixto View Post
Isn't pulling the front cover a given? In the unlikely event you fish out both ends of the chain and its still engaged to everything below the head gasket, wouldn't you want to look around for the cause or collateral damage? Can you see the oil pump chain with the lower pan removed?

Sixto
87 300D
It's a OM61X there is no front (timing case) cover ala`the OM60X engines

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  #17  
Old 09-17-2011, 05:09 PM
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Check out the car this morning. It is not going to be easy.

1) Timing chain snapped
2) Cam shaft broke
3) 1 Cam shaft tower broke
4) Valves look OK but who knows without pulling the head

It is going to be expensive and is beyond me as an average DIY. He is going to get a mechanic to give a quote on

1) Fish out the chain and R & R, cam/cam tower from JY and hope for the best
2) Get a replacement engine
3) A rust free CA car for sale. He is good with body work and the paint work is excellent. Rebuilt tranny about 10K ago.
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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #18  
Old 09-17-2011, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
Check out the car this morning. It is not going to be easy.

1) Timing chain snapped
2) Cam shaft broke
3) 1 Cam shaft tower broke
4) Valves look OK but who knows without pulling the head

It is going to be expensive and is beyond me as an average DIY. He is going to get a mechanic to give a quote on

1) Fish out the chain and R & R, cam/cam tower from JY and hope for the best
2) Get a replacement engine
3) A rust free CA car for sale. He is good with body work and the paint work is excellent. Rebuilt tranny about 10K ago.
Some of the valves are bent; the axial deviation spec is very small. It would seem highly unlikely that you wouldn't be able to find a complete running decent replacement engine for less than what he's minimally asking for. The chain and its related parts alone will be $200, the replacement cam and tower (assuming a disassembly of the rest of the upper end and close inspection doesn't reveal other cam related damage) another $50-100, so your at $300 already with no labor.

I'd be surprised if you can't find a decent replacement for less than parts and labor to fix what he's got. And if you/he value a challenge, swapping out an engine in these cars is really pretty straightforward and well within the capabilities of a competent DIY guy, the satisfaction of accomplishing it is a nice reward in an of itself.
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  #19  
Old 09-17-2011, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
I have the Haynes Manual, Good tool set. I have replaced timing belt, taken gas engine head off and replaced the rings by dropping the pistons. What I have not done is diesel engine so I ask the experts. My friend is asking me to assess the damage so I promise to take a 'look'. He had it towed to a Indy but they claim they do not do diesel. This is not a DD so we can take our time and map out our options. I will see the car later today.

Thanks for the advice.
If you have done the above stuff you have enough skills to do the pissible fix.
I by accident knocked a Screwdriver down between the Timing Belt on my Volvo Diesel at idle.
The result was 2 bent Valves and at least 4 cracked Valve Tappets (no Rocker Arm or long Camshaft Towers to break),
The Pistons are entirely Aluminum and they suffered only slight denting.

The Mercedes Piston Heads are much stronger so I would expect them to be reusable.
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  #20  
Old 09-18-2011, 06:51 PM
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Ouch....

That's it. I'm going to get a new timing chain in the CD ASAP... I hate hearing this. I have no idea what the true mileage on the cd is either, odom, stopped to almost 200k and I don't know when, could have been 10 years ago for all I know.

Whats to going rate for a replacement timing chain and who around the chattanooga area can do one and be trusted? I'm thinking thios is going to have to be a dealer repair to make sure it done right...
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  #21  
Old 09-18-2011, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ngarover View Post
Ouch....

That's it. I'm going to get a new timing chain in the CD ASAP... I hate hearing this. I have no idea what the true mileage on the cd is either, odom, stopped to almost 200k and I don't know when, could have been 10 years ago for all I know.

Whats to going rate for a replacement timing chain and who around the chattanooga area can do one and be trusted? I'm thinking thios is going to have to be a dealer repair to make sure it done right...

Why not do the 2mm Method check to see what the Timing Chain Stretch actually is.
Also, on the first page I posted some links as to why some thought their Timing Chain Broke.
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2011, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarover View Post
Ouch....

That's it. I'm going to get a new timing chain in the CD ASAP... I hate hearing this. I have no idea what the true mileage on the cd is either, odom, stopped to almost 200k and I don't know when, could have been 10 years ago for all I know.

Whats to going rate for a replacement timing chain and who around the chattanooga area can do one and be trusted? I'm thinking thios is going to have to be a dealer repair to make sure it done right...
Nahhh,
a timing chain swap is WELL within the average DIY's ability to replace. on a running vehicle. I'd order a new factory key with no offset first, just in case someone has already installed an offset.

you need to have a garage to do it in my opinion... outside timing chain work is unwise.
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  #23  
Old 09-19-2011, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
Nahhh,
a timing chain swap is WELL within the average DIY's ability to replace. on a running vehicle. I'd order a new factory key with no offset first, just in case someone has already installed an offset.

you need to have a garage to do it in my opinion... outside timing chain work is unwise.
Nope, after breaking my cam shaft messing with timing chain in my D there is no way in hell I'm ever touching another one. I've done a lot of reading here and it requires to many special tools to do the job, that gauge to locate top dead center on the engine, that guide to help get the timing chain in, the tool to disassemble the old chain to remove it, another tool to correctly assemble the new chain... By the time I buy all those tools I might as well have it professionally done and have a warranty etc. Plus I'll sleep better knowing it right.

Plus I have no access to a garage, everything I do is under a tree...

Last edited by ngarover; 09-19-2011 at 08:38 AM.
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  #24  
Old 09-19-2011, 10:22 AM
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isn't it recommended to replace the timing chain on these cars every 150K miles? another reminder why certain maintenance items are not an option on these cars, pay a little now for the maintenance or pay a LOT later in repairs (I'm preaching to myself as well as to the other forum members...)

you might also consider contacting metric motors for a new head and a new camshaft......


here's the link, everything is BRAND NEW, a plus, IMHO.....

http://mercedesengines.net/products.asp?cat=46

Last edited by HuskyMan; 09-19-2011 at 10:50 AM.
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  #25  
Old 09-19-2011, 11:24 AM
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When I was a younger man, I had my 62 fintail 190c. it needed a valve job. I got up on a saturday morning in the middle of the winter in Detroit, removed the head, strapped it to the tank of my motorcycle, rode to a machine shop that was open on Saturday, he installed the new valves and lapped them in, I strapped it back on my bike and rode home in a wet snow and installed the head. I got it all done the same day, I believe. If not I may have finished on Sunday.

Course, those were simpler days.
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  #26  
Old 09-19-2011, 12:14 PM
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something else I learned a long time ago about these engines. if operating in cold weather conditions, do not ever use WD40 in the air intake or you might snap a timing chain. Once upon a time, after running a W123 out of diesel fuel, I used this method and fortunately, it worked. However, when I told the mechanic about doing it, he informed me that I had been very lucky that the timing chain had not snapped. never again.
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  #27  
Old 09-19-2011, 12:57 PM
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Husky man, I think that is pretty far out. Starting fluids should not be used to be sure. They can do a lot of damage. But we have a lot people on the forum here who have used WD40 as a starting aid at sometime. The sucess in the past has been with the snort of propane that they got, not the oil. Now WD40 does not use propane as a propellant, so the stuff is probably pretty much useless.
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  #28  
Old 09-19-2011, 12:58 PM
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I have done timing belt but not on timing chain on a 61x or 60x engine. You can afford mistake on timing belt as the one I changed was outside the engine. It was a Volvo 760 and was a non-interfering engine. The timing was set wrong but I put it right afterwords after driven it for about 10 miles.

It seems you only have one shot with 61x engine if you want to change the chain as a preventive measure. You may do more damage if you do the timing wrong. I have not read the manual and I may be wrong.

My question is there an easy way to predict the imminent demise of a chain?

Let get back to OP. My friend may take the route of a replacement engine if one is available locally.
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #29  
Old 09-19-2011, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
I have done timing belt but not on timing chain on a 61x or 60x engine. You can afford mistake on timing belt as the one I changed was outside the engine. It was a Volvo 760 and was a non-interfering engine. The timing was set wrong but I put it right afterwords after driven it for about 10 miles.

It seems you only have one shot with 61x engine if you want to change the chain as a preventive measure. You may do more damage if you do the timing wrong. I have not read the manual and I may be wrong.

My question is there an easy way to predict the imminent demise of a chain?

Let get back to OP. My friend may take the route of a replacement engine if one is available locally.
the sound of a pending timing chain failure may be hard to hear over the diesel clatter. I've always been told to install a new timing chain every 150K, no matter what.
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  #30  
Old 09-19-2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
the sound of a pending timing chain failure may be hard to hear over the diesel clatter. I've always been told to install a new timing chain every 150K, no matter what.
Where do you get this 150K number? It seems too low. Even timing belt can last 150K or longer, although the stealership would recommend to do it every 100K, more business of course.

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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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