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  #46  
Old 09-22-2011, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
As in all things, there is the right way and then there is the wrong way. If it were mine, I'd track down a competent Indy to complete the task. I'd buy a NEW head from Metric Motors (one less item to worry about) and hire out the head and timing chain install. If someone is not well versed in benz diesel design and repair procedures, it might be best to turn the project over to a pro. A man's time is worth $$$$ and spending valuable time attempting to learn diesel repair might be a long painful process versus what he could do to earn $$$$ doing what he normally does.
I cannot agree with you more.

If your earning rate per hour is more than a tradesman then it is always more cost effective to hire someone to do the job. The issue is that you can not be working at the same hourly rate 24/7. Plus the satisfaction you get from getting a job well done cannot be measured by $ and cents. It is not my car so I am offering the best advice, plus what I get from here, to him. He is a guy with modest means so taking it to a stealership or expensive Indy is out of the question.

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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #47  
Old 09-22-2011, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
I cannot agree with you more.

If your earning rate per hour is more than a tradesman then it is always more cost effective to hire someone to do the job. The issue is that you can not be working at the same hourly rate 24/7. Plus the satisfaction you get from getting a job well done cannot be measured by $ and cents. It is not my car so I am offering the best advice, plus what I get from here, to him. He is a guy with modest means so taking it to a stealership or expensive Indy is out of the question.
nothing on a mercedes is inexpensive (at least that has been my experience). He might consider shopping the job to several Indies using a competitive bid process. A friend of mine did the same thing with a plumbing job he needed done and saved himself $2,000.....in addition, the winning bidder did a superb job!
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  #48  
Old 09-22-2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
As in all things, there is the right way and then there is the wrong way. If it were mine, I'd track down a competent Indy to complete the task. I'd buy a NEW head from Metric Motors (one less item to worry about) and hire out the head and timing chain install. If someone is not well versed in benz diesel design and repair procedures, it might be best to turn the project over to a pro. A man's time is worth $$$$ and spending valuable time attempting to learn diesel repair might be a long painful process versus what he could do to earn $$$$ doing what he normally does.
These are older cars. They are prone to require more frequent servicing than fairly new cars. Todays paid for service rates are kind of based on that premis. You may have a higher dollar flow out of pocket if paid services are used than an individual may like.

These cars in general are self servicing cars by the owners in my opinion. Otherwise their practicality and ownership is questionable in my mind. Even a half decent example can cost many thousands to bring up to good condition with paid service. Then as things further require additional service you may have the proverbial money pit on your hands.

This job is manageable by the average individual. Rebuilding the automatic in contrast generally is not. The only difference between what they may attempt and myself. I would somehow check out the used head prior to installing it. They may have to expend a little time getting the engine timing right as well. Or get a little help if not familiar with the requirements.
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  #49  
Old 09-26-2011, 01:58 PM
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Bought the head for $50

Bought the head for $50 yesterday. It seems to be in good shape. My friend is checking it out and I am at work. He called and said the marking on the head is different. I know it is a head for OM617, 5 cylinders but not sure which year. My questions:

1) Are all the head the same or almost the same over the year for om617 engine.
2) Any difference between turbo and non-turbo engine?

Thanks
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #50  
Old 09-26-2011, 02:06 PM
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there's some subtle differences in the heads, and I know for sure there's a difference between a NA and a turbo head, I dont think you can use a NA head on a turbo motor but may be able to use a turbo head on a NA motor, I could be wrong, but I know there's a difference
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  #51  
Old 09-26-2011, 02:09 PM
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I believe the turbo heads have sodium filled valves.
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  #52  
Old 09-26-2011, 02:35 PM
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castings are all identical. the TD (wagon) heads have the sls pump flange machined in.
the exhaust valves are sodium filled, and the seats are hardened in the turbo heads.
also, the non turbo heads before 1979-1/2 had LARGE body glow plug holes...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #53  
Old 09-26-2011, 04:50 PM
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The pre chambers have to be 16 mm in diameter for a turbo engine.
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76 240 D. Bought in 1998 for $25.
85 300D. Got it for free with a bad engine. ( Sold )
60 Unimog 404. What was left of it, was given to me. Now powerd by 617A.
88 560 SEL. Bought without engine and trans. Now powerd by 617A.
67 250 SE. Cuope. For resto or sale.
64 220SE. For resto.
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  #54  
Old 09-27-2011, 12:20 AM
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The Rockers are different for the turbo. they have a Carbide Face.
I seem to remember the Cam shaft being different also.

Charlie
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there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

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  #55  
Old 09-27-2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1960mog View Post
The pre chambers have to be 16 mm in diameter for a turbo engine.
do you mean the PC's are not the same? hmm. the bodies are the same thread, must be a difference in the combustion chamber/piston end... fun.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #56  
Old 09-27-2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charmalu View Post
The Rockers are different for the turbo. they have a Carbide Face.
I seem to remember the Cam shaft being different also.

Charlie
ahh, but that's not part of the head, that's stuff that can be swapped over.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #57  
Old 09-27-2011, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
castings are all identical. the TD (wagon) heads have the sls pump flange machined in.
the exhaust valves are sodium filled, and the seats are hardened in the turbo heads.
also, the non turbo heads before 1979-1/2 had LARGE body glow plug holes...
This heads have no separate valve seats.
Is the head itself hardened around the valve seat area?
When I machine this seats, I can not feel/see any difference in hardness between turbo and non turbo heads.
Or do you mean the valve is hardened around the seat area?
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76 240 D. Bought in 1998 for $25.
85 300D. Got it for free with a bad engine. ( Sold )
60 Unimog 404. What was left of it, was given to me. Now powerd by 617A.
88 560 SEL. Bought without engine and trans. Now powerd by 617A.
67 250 SE. Cuope. For resto or sale.
64 220SE. For resto.
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  #58  
Old 09-27-2011, 10:53 PM
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Cannot fish out the old chain !!

My friend called and said that he cannot fish out the old chain. The head is off, oil pan is off. What else can be removed to take a peek at why it is jammed?

Thanks
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-27-2011, 11:02 PM
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it's likely jammed between gears etc. it's gonna take rocking the crank back and forth while the end of the chain is pulled on.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #60  
Old 09-27-2011, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
My friend called and said that he cannot fish out the old chain. The head is off, oil pan is off. What else can be removed to take a peek at why it is jammed?

Thanks
The vacuum pump can be removed to get a better look also!

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