1982 240D, 4-speed


So! Here's the issue:

- With the clutch engaged, I get a grind and crunch (wizzzzzclunk) when shifting into 3rd (especially), 4th, and reverse (sometimes). 1st and 2nd are fine.

- Sometimes, with the clutch engaged, I can't shift into 3rd at all

- After shifting into third, if I keep the clutch engaged I can shift in to any gear, including 3rd, without grinding


Possibly related information:

Immediately before this started happening, I broke the water-pump/fan belt. So I pulled over (when I noticed the temperature rising rapidly) and had the car towed home, about 25 miles. Then I replaced the belt. I noticed the problem during my drive around the block to test the work I'd done. I NEVER had this problem pre-tow, only afterward. Also, while the guy was hooking my car up to the truck, he pulled it forward about 3 feet with it in gear (don't know which) and engine off. He shifted it into neutral -- naturally -- for the tow home. I don't mean to sound like I'm blaming the tow guy, just listing all possibly pertinent info.

What I've done:

Thinking that stranger things have happened, I considered that I'd somehow gotten air into my clutch line, so I bled it (bottom up). No air in there and the clutch seems to engage just fine. Feels even better than before, in fact. But the problem, exactly as it was pre-bleed, persists.


That's the problem. What ought I to do next?

Thanks, fellas!

__________________
---
Cam
1982 240d

Get under the car with a 6mm allen socket and make sure the arms are in the neutral position and tighten the allen cap bolt on each of the arms. If they are loose the gear will not be fully engaged. I had an issue getting into 1st with my '82 240D and after pulling the transmission we found that the shift arm was loose. I tightened it and the arm was good. Note, I did not put that transmission back in. I replaced it with a lower mile box.

Sorry to hear about your problem. How long have you owned the car? Do you have any records of prior work? Have the clutch components ever been serviced before?

__________________
'95 E300D ("Tank") - 231,000 miles
'79 240D ("Biscuit") - 197,250 miles (Sold)
'83 240D ("Ding-Ding") - 217,000 miles (Death by deer)
______________________________________

"Back off, man. I’m a scientist” ~ Peter Venkman

The vehicle was towed with the rear wheels on the ground and the transmission in neutral? It was towed in this condition for 25 miles?

That could cause some problems. These transmissions are splash lubricated, the turning gear set throws fluid around the inside of the case. There is a lower gear set and an upper gear set, the lower gear contacts the fluid directly, the upper gear set does not. When the car is towed in neutral the upper gearset which is connected to the output shaft turns without the benefit of the tranny fluid bathing it.

The first thing you probably need to do is to check the transmission fluid level and condition.

#1. Replace the transmission fluid with fresh Dexron/Mercon III.

#2. Inspect the shift linkage bushings and replace as needed.


NEVER tow with the rear wheels on the ground, unless the drive-shaft is disconnected.
Note: All 4MATIC models must be transported by a roll back or full trailer.

Towing DISASTER!!!
Towing DISASTER!!!

I need to tow dolly my 300D 40 miles...
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/224996-i-need-tow-dolly-my-300d-40-miles.html#post1883686

transporting parts cars
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/188901-transporting-parts-cars.html#post1512314



.

__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1985 300SD
1983 300D
1984 190D
2003 Volvo V70
2002 Honda Civic

https://www.boldegoist.com/

We are talking manual transmissions here aren't we?

If so if you can get hold of it even the Haynes W123 diesel manual has a manual gearbox section...

I can't vouch for how good it is - 'cos I've got an automatic - but it seems like a good place to start if a fluid refresh don't help.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

It sure sounds like a clutch hydraulic problem to me. I would double check fluid level in the brake master cylinder then bleed the clutch once again.

Nothing wrong with the other suggestions here, but clutch system with air in it sounds like the culprit to me. If you can pump up the clutch and get a good shift at rest that would prove it.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

x2. The magnet on the drain plug could tell you if you have anything burnt up or flake kicking around in there

Tow truck drivers are such a pain in the a$$. I haven't met one of these guys yet who didn't act like he knew everything about all cars when it came to telling you how he intends to tow your car. I always request a flatbed.

I agree with the other comments that it could be a clutch engagement problem, BUT, towing in neutral with the rear wheels on the ground can cook a bunch of bearings pretty quick, as well as loose gears rotating on the output shaft.

As billybob says, the transmission relys on the countershaft, which is sitting in the bottom of the case for all lubrication. When power is transferred through the input shaft from the engine, the countershaft is turning at all times that you put power through the transmission, BUT, when rotation is applied in reverse, from the tires to the rear of the transmission, the output shaft is freewheeling in neutral while the countershaft remains still. The effect is no lubricant splashing up over any bearings or gears. End of story is a lot of moving parts can heat up and end up damaged.

Listen for bearing noise as well as checking clutch issues, and hold on to the info for that towing service! Just in case, they may owe you for a transmission repair.

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

I have done quite a bit of flat towing with stick equipped mercedes with no ill effect. I towed my 72 220d to the smokey mountains and back on a tow bar with no ill effect.

Now towing an automatic is a whole different story. If you want to flat tow you better run the engine or unhook the driveshaft.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Took it to a shop. They said the 3rd and 4th synchros are damaged and my trans needs to be rebuilt (or replaced, I guess).

I'm not looking forward to the fight that I anticipate with the tow company :-\


Thanks for all your help, fellas. I REALLY appreciate it!!!

__________________
---
Cam
1982 240d

Was the tow AAA or out of pocket?

I'd get a second opinion. Still sounds like a simple hydraulic problem to me.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

AAA. I made a claim with them and they told me, essentially, "Your claim has been documented. Now call the tow company -- here's their number -- and settle it with them. If they don't settle it to your satisfaction, call us back."

I just don't know what to expect from here on in. The tow company isn't open 'till tomorrow morning and, from what I gather based on the general reputation of tow companies, it's not going to be easy getting them to pony up.

Have y'all any pearls for me about what to do/not to do?

Thanks again!!!

__________________
---
Cam
1982 240d

Lots of people smoke their whole lives without dying before their time, but does that make it a good idea?

x2 on the get a second opinion. Is this shop a MB place? They should check all the simple likely stuff first, clutch hydraulics, shift linkage bushings ect.

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Well AAA contract shops are required to have and follow the AAA Towing and Service Guide. This is a book of a couple hundred pages that lists cars by model and year, there is a description of the how and where to hook a vehicle up, how it should be towed and any model specific issue.

Before getting in a beef with the tow contractor try to find some info ideally an AAA towing and service manual that covers the year of your car, you might do a web search and find an old one on Amazon or eBay, or I would take a ride and see if you can find a small garage that tows and they might have an older manual up on a shelf somewhere. The manual usually cover about 10 or 12 model years so you'll probably need one from 1990 or so. You can also get an up to date copy of this book, the 2011 isssue is $29.95 stock number #234811 here,

http://www.awdirect.com/2010-aaa-manuals-tm10/manuals-education/

You want to go at it like they should have known better (sorry but you should have also), and if they did not know with certainty that it was safe to tow it as they did, they should have towed it either on a flat bed or they could have towed it with a lift truck after dollying the rear wheels up off the road. If you can get a picture of the truck that towed you and it had a dolly (this will be two sets of two 14 wheels on a small frame) on its deck that could help you down the road possibly i.e. "they had the correct equipment they just didn't want to go through the trouble of using it"

You can also work the "what training does the driver have" the company that doesn't hire trained drivers or does not itself train drivers would be more irresponsible. Be calm and direct when dealing with them, it won't do any good to be shouting and swearing, your best bet is to convince them that you know they should have towed it differently and would be able to document it. Take notes of you conversation with peoples names and positions as you'll likely end up dealing with AAA and you'll want the story straight and the facts documented.

Good Luck! Oh do a search as there was someone else in this situation a few years back and I think they ended up with a good resolution.