Clutch on my 190D DD died - HELP - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ah-kay · #1 05-05-2012, 12:58 PM

The clutch died about 40 miles from home when I left the freeway. I turned off the freeway and when I tried to put it into neutral, nothing. Clutch felt spongy or next to nothing and could not put into 1st or any gears. Coasted to the side, pumped the clutch a few times, nothing, it went almost all the way down.

Stopped the car and I could put it in gear so I limped home by putting the car in gear before starting. Managed to get back on the freeway in 4th and drove slowly home. Never tried to put it in 5th as I was afraid once I shifted it would not shift into 5th or back to 4th then I would be screwed big time on the freeway.

Now the car is back home, what a close shave! The clutch now seems a bit responsive, I can feel resistance ( a bit weaker than before ) when I push it down and can shift gear. What could be the problem? The slave cylinder? The fluid is OK as it is fed by the brake reservoir.

Any info is appreciated.

kerry · #2 05-05-2012, 01:26 PM

Probably slave or master. 50/50 on which one. Look at the master and see if you can see fluid around it.

gastropodus · #3 05-05-2012, 01:52 PM

I had this exact same experience last week on my daily driver 240D! I managed to get it into 2nd gear one last time, then drove home in 2nd gear with flashers going on city streets, timing the lights so as not to brake. On the plus side, this cleaned up an intermittent flasher problem...

The next morning there was a stain of brake fluid under the slave cylinder, so no question about what failed. However, I'm going to replace both slave and master cylinder at the same time - I don't think it's that much more work, and the real pain, so I'm told, is in the bleeding.

Good luck on the 190D. I also had clutch problems with it, but when I crawled under the car and saw how tight the clearance was around the bell housing I threw in the towel and dragged it down to the indie. At the time I told my wife and friends "Well, if this had been the 240D, sure, I'd just change it myself, cause the 240D is so much easier to work on..." Now I guess I'm going to find out how easy it is going to be!

Kurt

Stevo · #4 05-05-2012, 03:12 PM

the slave on a 616 is very easy, not so on my 617. If the 190D is similar to the 617 it helped a bunch to undo the four 13mm tranny cross member bolts, dropping the tranny a little, allowing a tad more room.

for bleeding use an oil squirt can or a grease gun, which I haven't tried but it sounds promising.

ah-kay · #5 05-06-2012, 02:03 AM

Have some time to look at the problem tonight. I look at the clutch master and slave cylinder and there is no leakage there. Nothing is wet. It seems that the clutch is back to normal now as it is not spongy anymore. How can it be possible?

One more piece of info. I changed the Master brake cylinder/reservoir about 1 month back. The clutch cylinder hydraulic is fed by the Master brake. I bled the brake but NOT the clutch. Should I bleed the clutch circuit also?

layback40 · #6 05-06-2012, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

Have some time to look at the problem tonight. I look at the clutch master and slave cylinder and there is no leakage there. Nothing is wet. It seems that the clutch is back to normal now as it is not spongy anymore. How can it be possible?

One more piece of info. I changed the Master brake cylinder/reservoir about 1 month back. The clutch cylinder hydraulic is fed by the Master brake. I bled the brake but NOT the clutch. Should I bleed the clutch circuit also?

Bleeding can only help.
There is a chance that a bit of crud found its way into the clutch MC & prevented it from building pressure. I hope that is all the problem was. If you have no leaks visible it is most likely a MC problem.
Good Luck !

Stevo · #7 05-06-2012, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

Should I bleed the clutch circuit also?

YES

kerry · #8 05-06-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

Have some time to look at the problem tonight. I look at the clutch master and slave cylinder and there is no leakage there. Nothing is wet. It seems that the clutch is back to normal now as it is not spongy anymore. How can it be possible?

One more piece of info. I changed the Master brake cylinder/reservoir about 1 month back. The clutch cylinder hydraulic is fed by the Master brake. I bled the brake but NOT the clutch. Should I bleed the clutch circuit also?

That's a crucial piece of info. I think it's likely that your problem is caused by the fact that the clutch system took a gulp of air. Check to make sure your fluid level is correct especially in the clutch feed portion. MB designed those reservoirs so that if the fluid goes low, the clutch takes a gulp of air before the brakes do. Smart thinking. It's better to be absent a clutch than absent brakes.

ah-kay · #9 05-06-2012, 12:08 PM

Any easy way to bleed the clutch? The method used by the Haynes manual is quite convoluted.

Stevo · #10 05-06-2012, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

Any easy way to bleed the clutch? The method used by the Haynes manual is quite convoluted.

POST#4, pump brake fluid UP from the slave with a pump oil can. Thats the easy way.

ah-kay · #11 05-06-2012, 07:18 PM

Bled the clutch using the forced bleeding method as per Haynes manual by connecting a hose between the brake bleeding nipple and slave clutch cylinder nipple. It is not as difficult as it sounds but it is a 2 persons job. I think a pump oil can would work but did not try it.

Thanks guys.

Stevo · #12 05-06-2012, 08:42 PM

Neither method takes two people, believe me i have do it both ways several times. With the pump can you only have one hose to hook up, open the bleeder on the slave and pump, close the bleeder, your done. With the brake slave to clutch slave you are dealing with two different size bleeders, 7mm on the clutch slave and 9mm on the brake slave which means using hose clamps unless you enjoy a brake fluid shower

. Its doable but using the pump can is the way to go.

ah-kay · #13 05-14-2012, 01:05 PM

I bled the clutch and drove the car for 3 days without issues. So decided to take the car up to San Jose as it is more fuel efficient. Clutch failed ( floored and pumped the clutch and nothing ) about 70 miles from home just outside LA. Weather was hot, 90+F. The clutch came back slightly and managed to limp home and took another car. Did about 1200 miles on SDL in comfort and style and no issues. The trip was delayed by about 3 1/2 hours to change car and did not get to the hotel until 1:30am.

The clutch is completely gone now. May be it is a good thing as I hate intermittent fault. Ordered both the master and slave cylinders but it will be next month before I have the time to swap them out.

Still puzzled why the clutch failed after a while. May be there was air or the cylinders were on their way out and the temperature and distance eventually did them in. Any ideas?

chasinthesun · #14 05-14-2012, 01:42 PM

Since the brake resorvoir is also the clutches did you go low on brake fluid shortly before this issue and add fluid to the resorvoir? Might explain the lines getting air.If you also have a fluid lose at either a brake line or more commonly a worn out caliper this could seep air into the clutch sytem via the brake resorvior,thats the only way if theirs no culpreit along the clutch system and providing the clutch was bleed properly .I would start by checking all the brakes and lines for wetness if the clutch slave / master cyl and lines look dry.I dont remember the trick off hand to bleeding the air out of these systems but I did learn the process on this forum .

ah-kay · #15 05-14-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasinthesun

Since the brake resorvoir is also the clutches did you go low on brake fluid shortly before this issue and add fluid to the resorvoir? Might explain the lines getting air.If you also have a fluid lose at either a brake line or more commonly a worn out caliper this could seep air into the clutch sytem via the brake resorvior,thats the only way if theirs no culpreit along the clutch system and providing the clutch was bleed properly .I would start by checking all the brakes and lines for wetness if the clutch slave / master cyl and lines look dry.I dont remember the trick off hand to bleeding the air out of these systems but I did learn the process on this forum .

The brake fluid reservoir is full at all time. I think it is just the cylinders are dying of old age. I am not sure they are the original ones but it is cheap insurance to change out both anyway.