W123 Lemforder Guide Rod mounts poorly made - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

treetrimmer · #16 10-14-2011, 05:34 PM

I'll have to respectfully disagree. R&Ring coil springs, (or any sprung component), is among the most dangerous procedures in auto repair. There is the potential for death or disfiguring injury happening in less time than it takes to type the word "oops". I've replaced the GRMs on both 123 and 126 cars w/o removing the spring or using ratchet straps more than once. They are not a big deal if you know WTF you're doing. I've also seen techs use a ratchet strap to hold the front wheel in forward position with no damage to anything. It's simply holding it as far forward as it will go under reasonable tension. We are not understanding each other, apparently.

Go ahead and do it any way that you want. I see advice on these BBSs, (not this one in particular), from amateurs that is nothing less than a Darwin award waiting to happen. It makes me shiver.

vstech · #17 10-14-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treetrimmer

You definitely do not need to remove the springs to R&R the GRMs. That's bad information on a DIY site, R&Ring the springs can be an extremely dangerous procedure for an amateur/home mechanic. There are at least a couple ways to get the clearance to change the GRMs, my favorite is the *ratchet strap method* to pull forward the spindle/front wheel. Like many other suspension jobs, it's no big deal with the proper skills/tools/equipment and absolute masochistic hell w/o all of the above.

I'm sorry to hear about these Lemforder mounts. The quality of all parts has been taking a schit lately, including dealer supplied parts. NOTHING is what it used to be, and I'm talking about even 1 year ago. Thank globalism for that, I guess...

That said, I would not put anything Meyle on my cars unless it was an extremely insignificant part. I have seen someone get (2) identical defective brake MCs in a row in Meyle boxes. I could probably make better parts in my bathtub.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 79Mercy

This is very bad info. If your guide rod mounts are bad please dont try replacing them without properly pulling the spring out. The "ratchet strap method" is a accident waiting to happen, i have put the method to the test once before.

I hope you don't think he was recommending using a ratchet strap to compress a spring!!!
he's not! he's saying that if you are JUST changing out the body mounted bushing, spring compression is not needed. just unbolt the bushing, and push the part forward/use a ratchet strap to hold it still, and unscrew the bushing from the rod. then reverse. if the MOUNT that is under the spring is in need of repair/replacement, then of course spring compression is needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by treetrimmer

I'll have to respectfully disagree. R&Ring coil springs, (or any sprung component), is among the most dangerous procedures in auto repair. There is the potential for death or disfiguring injury happening in less time than it takes to type the word "oops". I've replaced the GRMs on both 123 and 126 cars w/o removing the spring or using ratchet straps more than once. They are not a big deal if you know WTF you're doing. I've also seen techs use a ratchet strap to hold the front wheel in forward position with no damage to anything. It's simply holding it as far forward as it will go under reasonable tension. We are not understanding each other, apparently.

Go ahead and do it any way that you want. I see advice on these BBSs, (not this one in particular), from amateurs that is nothing less than a Darwin award waiting to happen. It makes me shiver.

layback40 · #18 10-14-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

the lines are down from india/china at the moment, but when back up, I'm sure they will chime in...

Maybe he is not peddling hard enough to keep his laptop going !!

79Mercy · #19 10-14-2011, 10:26 PM

I know that he wasnt saying to compress the spring with a a ratchet strap.

However i would love to actually see someone replace the guide rod mounts without pulling the springs out. i hate to admit it, but i did attempt to replace a GRM using a ratchet strap to hold the LCA forward, couldnt do it and it was a very unsafe process in my book. There is simply not enough room to get the guide rod far enough forward so you can turn it and pull it down to unscrew the mount.

I use only the Klann spring compressor to remove the springs, safe and painless.

otto huber · #20 10-14-2011, 11:11 PM

79mercy,

I thought that bad GRM's make a rattling sound rather than a pop. Are you sure that it's the GRM's that are bad? I replaced the GRM's on my 300SD a couple of months ago and the rattle went away, but I got a popping sound once I replaced the center link a month later. What were the parts you replaced in the process of rebuilding the front end?

MBeige · #21 10-14-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 79Mercy

I know that he wasnt saying to compress the spring with a a ratchet strap.

However i would love to actually see someone replace the guide rod mounts without pulling the springs out. i hate to admit it, but i did attempt to replace a GRM using a ratchet strap to hold the LCA forward, couldnt do it and it was a very unsafe process in my book. There is simply not enough room to get the guide rod far enough forward so you can turn it and pull it down to unscrew the mount.

I use only the Klann spring compressor to remove the springs, safe and painless.

I read the procedure here, and was able to remove and replace the GRM on both sides using the said method. It required placing a floor jack on the chassis, as well as underneath the control arm to allow one control over the length of the guide rod (when screwing the old one off and back on with the replacement).

No springs were removed, but the front shock absorbers had to be released from the top mounts. No need to remove the shock absorbers from the bottom mounts. The second floor jack will allow one to compress or extend the spring in order to remove the top mount of the front shock. This method of shortening or lengthening the spring via raising or lowering the control arm will allow the GRM to be installed.

Diesel911 · #22 10-15-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 79Mercy

This is very bad info. If your guide rod mounts are bad please dont try replacing them without properly pulling the spring out. The "ratchet strap method" is a accident waiting to happen, i have put the method to the test once before.

It is not the Safety issue with the above method that bothers me.

If you have old Lower Control Arm Bushings pulling the LCA forward enough to remove the Guid Rond Mount might well end the life of an old Bushing.

Diesel911 · #23 10-15-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Z

Anyone have a MERCEDES PRICE for the guide rod mounts and the two other bracket bushings?
Everybody must have these front end noises. I have an appointment on Wednesday to take a look.
I wouldn't mind trying to get the brackets at the Pick & Pull and rebuilding them, instead of tying up the lift while re-doing the originals.

What parts inside do you think you would be rebuilding?

colincoon · #24 10-15-2011, 09:47 PM

I had Meyle guide rod mounts, and they made the popping noise as well. I replaced them with Lemforders and while they physically look much better build quality wise, they still crack and pop.

I'm just going to wait for a while before changing them again, it's not a priority.

hjoab · #25 11-08-2018, 11:55 PM

Ok it looks like if we have to accept that we will never get rid of the clunking sound. I 've done my guides less than a year ago they are **** now. Lermforder. I really believe this a ****ing bad design from Mercedes

hjoab · #26 11-09-2018, 12:00 AM

I am thinking about a repalcemet design from these ficking rods design. A kind fof a ifxed part .

Stretch · #27 11-09-2018, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjoab

I am thinking about a repalcemet design from these ficking rods design. A kind fof a ifxed part .

Me too

My Febi ones "clicked out of the box"

I'm thinking along the lines of aircraft grade components: This is all very well but I don't want to pay aircraft grade component prices!

MongooseGA · #28 11-09-2018, 10:50 AM

Having the same issue in my '85 after rebuilding the entire front suspension. I echo an earlier poster, pissed off after all that work is an understatement.

I had the guys at Blue Ridge Mercedes try to figure out the problem, no dice. Took it to the boys at Gran Turismo East and one of the techs thinks he narrowed the sound down to the guide rod or the upper control arm. Again, both are brand new.

Sounds like this is common. Is there a tried and true way to definitively diagnose the part making the noise? It's basically a popping sound as described that presents itself when braking heavy or turns that cause the car's weight to shift from side to side. Definitely makes a nice car sound and feel like a hooptie. Sound is coming from what seems like the firewall or just in front of it on the driver's side only. Makes a good case for the guide rod mount right there.

otto huber · #29 11-09-2018, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MongooseGA

Having the same issue in my '85 after rebuilding the entire front suspension. I echo an earlier poster, pissed off after all that work is an understatement.

I had the guys at Blue Ridge Mercedes try to figure out the problem, no dice. Took it to the boys at Gran Turismo East and one of the techs thinks he narrowed the sound down to the guide rod or the upper control arm. Again, both are brand new.

Sounds like this is common. Is there a tried and true way to definitively diagnose the part making the noise? It's basically a popping sound as described that presents itself when braking heavy or turns that cause the car's weight to shift from side to side. Definitely makes a nice car sound and feel like a hooptie. Sound is coming from what seems like the firewall or just in front of it on the driver's side only. Makes a good case for the guide rod mount right there.

I've dealt with the same frustration as you, and have learned to just accept the noise. I've taken the car to a tire and suspension place to confirm that the car is safe. I can't help but wonder if the bracket that holds the front sway bar in place gets loose after years of service, and makes noise. I'm not going to remove the brake booster and master cylinder to find out.

MongooseGA · #30 11-09-2018, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by otto huber

I've dealt with the same frustration as you, and have learned to just accept the noise. I've taken the car to a tire and suspension place to confirm that the car is safe. I can't help but wonder if the bracket that holds the front sway bar in place gets loose after years of service, and makes noise. I'm not going to remove the brake booster and master cylinder to find out.

Ugh, it's terrible. With as much money as I've sunken into this car, I just can't put up with it. I could be in a new body Bluetec for what's gone into my 300D in the last 2 years.

Or a really nice E55K

Or a pretty nice SL600 TT...

I can't deal with the noise