Did you first rotate the crankshaft to 15 degrees ATDC? The marks should line up at start of delivery; the lock aligns approx 40 crankshaft degrees later.

From your description, it sounds like you were trying to combine two procedures in an "apple and oranges" sort of way. The crankshaft angle has to match the procedure.

What does chain elongation have to do with a new IP?

If the chain is elongated, the IP won't provide sufficient travel in the slots to rotate it to the timing specification.

As you noted previously, sometimes the pump needs to be removed and reinstalled one notch out of spec to enable sufficient range.

He is making the conclusion that the new IP is the culprit. Although he might be right, I'd be curious about the cam timing to see if the chain is the culprit.

That is true in the case of a pump that has been installed during the period in which the chain elongation occurred.


I never said "one notch out of spec." Remove and re-index, yes. That just amounts to repositioning the IP adjustment slots relative to the studs.

There was a series of IP's that were mismarked by two splines. One would hope that that issue would have been corrected in an overhauled pump.

If the chain has elongated, it's entirely possible that any IP will not provide sufficient adjustment range if the flat spot is properly aligned with the splines.


Remove and reindex involves shifting the splines of the IP relative to the splines in the timer. It might be one spline tooth...........might even be two if the chain is severely elongated.

It's been a while since I've checked chain stretch or compression on this motor but I seem to recall both being within reason. I haven't even had to install an offset woodruff key.

Seeing as I was able to drip time my old injection pump very accurately, my bet is that the fault lies in the new pump concerning the area I mentioned earlier. I am not confusing any two things here, and I don't refer to timing an IP as a "legendary" job. I fully and completely understand the timing proceedure Now through both drip timing and the lock tool. I'm willing to bet if I went back, pulled everything, and drip timed it with the wide tooth in the same location I used today for the lock tool it would meet with success. Do I want to R and R the pump et. al. a fourth time to prove a point? Nope.

It is entirely possible that it was not corrected.

Or, it is entirely possible that it is corrected and the chain is elongated.


It's one or the other............you do a Kentucky windage on it.

Perhaps then you could explain the concept of installing the IP with the marks aligned and then trying to adjust the IP so that you could install the lock tool.

Conversely, if you had the lock tool, why did you install the IP with the marks aligned?

If you install the IP with the lock tool, what should the crankshaft angle be?

If the IP marks are off, the problem is with the IP. Chain elongation has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Timing the IP should completely account for any prior chain elongation as it applies to the crankshaft/IP relationship.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like you're trying to bait me. I never said I was the most proficient diesel tech in the world. The reason I didn't use the lock tool is because I was never able to find concrete information on it's application. Lord knows I searched on here, but I decided to go ahead with the drip timing since it worked brilliantly for me on my first IP. Since the splines are apparently mis marked on my new pump, my efforts ended in retarded timing after the first go with the new pump.

I began this thread after the first go. Brian had a moment of Brian Fade and suggested I retard the timing a bit more, which I did the next day. This caused the issue to be even worse.

Enter today, following last nights posts. I now had concrete instructions regarding use of the lock tool, but had not identified that the alignment mark on the pump driver was off. Once I discovered this about the pump I was able to accurately set the timing with the lock tool.

Can't you share my moment of happiness that this is now solved and my timing is spot on?

Let's start over.

If you install the IP with the marks proper, the notch aligned with the tooth, and you cannot get the pump to rotate close enough to the engine to hit the specification............your only choice would be to reindex the IP.

The only reason that you must reindex the IP is the fact that the relationship between the crankshaft and the IP timer has changed over time due to the elongation of the chain and installing the IP to the original marks won't allow you to meet the spec.

So, I do believe that chain elongation does have an impact, if it is severe enough.

I can.

Good job.

Help is what we do here.

(when we don't screw up)

Could you simply say where the crankshaft was positioned when you set the locking tool?

No. The reason that the pump must be reindexed is that the relationship between the crankshaft and the IP timer has changed over time due to the elongation of the chain and the adjustment slots on the IP will no longer allow the IP to be rotated adequately to adjust the start of delivery.

If the IP is mismarked, it is mismarked. The chain didn't cause the problem and the chain can't fix it. Do the markings on the balancing disc need to be re-indexed when the chain stretches? The alignment marks on the IP are, conceptually, just like the marks on the balancer.

Didn't I just say the same thing?

You been drinking tonight??


Agreed.

But the chain can cause create the illusion of a problem with the IP when it does not exist.

When the chain stretches, the IP must be installed off the original marks to achieve the timing spec or you won't have sufficient travel in the slots.