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  #16  
Old 11-21-2011, 09:08 AM
Goodentight
 
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I feel like we're running in circles. The issue would be impossible to identify using the drip OR strobe method unless the valve cover is pulled and the cam orientation is taken into account. I will be doing that today. Thanks.

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  #17  
Old 11-21-2011, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libbybapa View Post
I feel like we're running in circles. The issue would be impossible to identify using the drip OR strobe method unless the valve cover is pulled and the cam orientation is taken into account. I will be doing that today. Thanks.
With the drip method, you can observe the position of the #1 cam lobes by removing the oil filler cap. No need to "pull" the valve cover.

In other words, it would be very easy to see whether the #1 piston is approaching TDC on the compression or exhaust stroke.
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  #18  
Old 11-21-2011, 09:18 AM
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Excellent, thanks. I wonder if too much oil would spray around while running it and shining the strobe on the cam through the oil cap.
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  #19  
Old 11-21-2011, 09:22 AM
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No, give it a shot.
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  #20  
Old 11-21-2011, 09:31 AM
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Very cool. I'll report back when I have more info.
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  #21  
Old 11-21-2011, 09:39 AM
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I wonder how accurate and how sensitive the piezo piclup is on the pulse adapter? As a test, can you try different tightness on the pickup clamp and see if it changes the reading?
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  #22  
Old 11-21-2011, 10:08 AM
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I have before. The tightness doesn't affect the timing of the pulse, it just affect how much current is generated from the pickup. It is totally accurate and much faster and easier to use than the drip method. I have used the drip method a few times before and it works alright, it's just a pain.
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  #23  
Old 11-21-2011, 10:13 AM
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Can you tell me more about the piezo clamp instrument you're using?

Like make / model / number...

Is it a simple strobe light that pulses when the pressure sensor feels the pipe running to the injector flex? So you just shine it on the pointer at the crank?
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  #24  
Old 11-21-2011, 10:29 AM
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Hang about

I've just found this thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/217823-timing-diesel-pulse-adapter-stobo-light-2.html

I guess you've got the snap on tool?

It doesn't seem to be available anymore.

As for the MAG et18dpm shown in a picture in the thread above I can't find a price for that either...

But an English company called Gunson do an adapter for about 125 GBP if you shop around - despite the rrp of 170.24!

Gunson | 77089 | Diesel Adaptor For Timing Lights

I've never been really impressed with Gunson though - anyone out there with experience?
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #25  
Old 11-21-2011, 11:17 AM
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Yes, I have the Snap-On pulse adapter. It transforms the pulse of the fuel line into a typical ignition signal (large diameter loop on device is the "ignition" wire). You can then use a typical gasser stroboscopic timing light. I love it and have been using it for quite a while on various engines. FWIW, with my unit I find 14° to be a bit too advance. 10-12° BTDC seem better to me. This is even more true for theVW IDI diesels.
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  #26  
Old 11-21-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libbybapa View Post
Yes, I have the Snap-On pulse adapter. It transforms the pulse of the fuel line into a typical ignition signal (large diameter loop on device is the "ignition" wire). You can then use a typical gasser stroboscopic timing light. I love it and have been using it for quite a while on various engines. FWIW, with my unit I find 14° to be a bit too advance. 10-12° BTDC seem better to me. This is even more true for theVW IDI diesels.
Thanks for that - interesting how begin of delivery is 24 degrees BTDC (say setting up with a drip tube); but you need another 10 degrees of rotation to get a fuel line pulse at 14 degrees BTDC but you say 10 - 12 degrees BTDC is better; I wonder when the ignition pulse kicks in and if that is measurable on injector line as well... interesting.

Why do you think 10-12 degrees BTDC is better? Is it quieter /smoother running? Better mpg / less soot?
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #27  
Old 11-21-2011, 04:01 PM
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The piezo pickup generates the pulse when the injector starts to spray and the line begins to relax so it is the actual start of injection. The drip tube method shows when fuel begins being pushed into the metal line. Seems reasonable that it takes 10° of revolution to generate the pressure necessary to pop the injectors. I prefer 10°-12° because, IMO, 14° is too clattery.
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  #28  
Old 11-21-2011, 04:08 PM
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So here's the update on the car. I used the strobe on the cam through the oil filler cap and it was timed correctly. I was doubtful that 4-6° of timing would make it run so poorly, but figured I'd advance it some just to see. I loosened the four pump mounting bolts, pulled the injector lines and rotated the pump to advance it. I had to bend the lines a bit to get them to mate back up with the pump. During that time, fuel was draining from the metal lines onto the pump. After I got the lines bent into position, I tightened them down and yet fuel was still dripping a bit from the pump. I didn't think the primer pump cleared the metal lines, but figured I'd give it a go. When I pumped the primer pump, a stream of fuel squirted out from around the pump inlet banjo. I tightened it down. The car seems to run a lot better. I think the combination of somewhat retarded timing, sucking air into the pump and losing prime from sitting may well be what has been causing the car to start and run so poorly.
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  #29  
Old 11-21-2011, 09:29 PM
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I wonder if the injector line actually flexes? Does it actually expand and contract? Hard to imagine a steel line with thick walls expanding and contracting. I am going to put a digital vernier caliper on it and see if it can measure the flex.
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  #30  
Old 11-21-2011, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
I am going to put a digital vernier caliper on it and see if it can measure the flex.
That is a lot like trying to measure three nanoseconds using a stopwatch.

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