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  #61  
Old 11-23-2011, 11:26 AM
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What is the ' resting ' pressure in that line between injection pulses?
Is it near the pop value of the injectors or does it pretty much go to zero between pulses ?

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  #62  
Old 11-23-2011, 11:29 AM
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Army , in anticipation of continuing the TDC discussion.... since have had the head off... with regards to using the valve to show the piston movement.... how far ( with the head gasket in place) do you think the valve can be used to follow the piston movement into the bore ? As you pointed out is used for the setting of the tach sensor....
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  #63  
Old 11-23-2011, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
......

I wonder where Brian Carlton got this value for 14 degrees BTDC? (Calling BC!)
I think he used the RIV tool to "calibrate" the pulse adapter.
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  #64  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
What is the ' resting ' pressure in that line between injection pulses?
Is it near the pop value of the injectors or does it pretty much go to zero between pulses ?
I haven't a clue - my gut says it wouldn't drop to zero but I have no proof of that
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1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

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  #65  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
Army , in anticipation of continuing the TDC discussion.... since have had the head off... with regards to using the valve to show the piston movement.... how far ( with the head gasket in place) do you think the valve can be used to follow the piston movement into the bore ? As you pointed out is used for the setting of the tach sensor....
Hmmm good question.

I know the piston crown protrudes by 1.6mm above the upper surface of the block on an OM617 (and a 603 if I remember what I read correctly). The thickness of the head gasket "saves" the piston each time it reaches TDC from smashing itself into the head...

When you drop the valve on the piston crown (at TDC) it can't fall much more than 2mm <= but this is from memory so I might be a bit out.

As for the length of the valve well errrr I've got one kicking about in the garage I can measure that length for you tomorrow.

I wouldn't be too comfortable watching the threaded part of a valve stem disappear down a valve guide though.

What's ya plan then Greg?
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #66  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
I think he used the RIV tool to "calibrate" the pulse adapter.
Thanks I'm going to PM him and see if he'll comment.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #67  
Old 11-23-2011, 02:00 PM
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@libbybapa

I was wondering to what engine speed you can use your equipment. Will the strobe still strobe up to say 4000rpm without causing any damage to itself, the car, the add on bits, yourself etc etc?

You see I've read and heard lots about people checking timing of the IP and modifying their IPs to do more wonderful things but I don't recall anyone making a fuss about the timing device.

This does the same job of an advance retard mechanism on a petrol engine - but the springs in there must also get a bit tired after 30 years







So my question is - do you think you could track the point of begin of delivery at engine speeds that are faster than idle in order to check the health of the timing device?
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #68  
Old 11-23-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
Hmmm good question....I wouldn't be too comfortable watching the threaded part of a valve stem disappear down a valve guide though.

What's ya plan then Greg?
I am going to make my presentation based on your figures.... ( part being lazy, part to keep it clean and on topic )...

It does bring up an important question which I just had not asked Yet..
Are we sure that on our engines a valve dropped into the bore can be pulled out through the precombustion chamber hole ? This would change seeing it drop on through from a huge deal to just a pain in the head.
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  #69  
Old 11-23-2011, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by leathermang View Post


Are we sure that on our engines a valve dropped into the bore can be pulled out through the precombustion chamber hole ?
Not in one piece.
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  #70  
Old 11-23-2011, 02:22 PM
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Put a nut on the valve stem to prevent it from dropping into the bore before messing with it!
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  #71  
Old 11-23-2011, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
Not in one piece.
Well, that is interesting.... brings up a possibility I had not considered...
Now, are you dealing from knowledge of a valve having been ' divided' inside the bore and removed...or are you just sure that given the disc size with it 90 degrees to the stem it can not come out in one piece ?
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  #72  
Old 11-23-2011, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
I am going to make my presentation based on your figures.... ( part being lazy, part to keep it clean and on topic )...

It does bring up an important question which I just had not asked Yet..
Are we sure that on our engines a valve dropped into the bore can be pulled out through the precombustion chamber hole ? This would change seeing it drop on through from a huge deal to just a pain in the head.
In chapter 5-117 (non turbo W123 FSM) it specifies that the diameter of the neck of the pre-chamber is 14mm at the nozzle where it sticks into the combustion chamber.

The diameter of the valves are between 33.1 and 39.9mm depending on engine type see chapter 5-280

Nice idea but if you drop a valve in a combustion chamber you either need to remove the head or get Spock to beam it out of there!
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #73  
Old 11-23-2011, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
....Nice idea but if you drop a valve in a combustion chamber you either need to remove the head or get Spock to beam it out of there!
Hold on... Spock just returned my call....
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  #74  
Old 11-23-2011, 02:48 PM
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Didn't someone claim they had been able to line up the dropped valve and reinsert it from the inside....(?)... and that may have only applied to one of them closer to the exhaust (?).....
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  #75  
Old 11-23-2011, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
@libbybapa

I was wondering to what engine speed you can use your equipment. Will the strobe still strobe up to say 4000rpm without causing any damage to itself, the car, the add on bits, yourself etc etc?

You see I've read and heard lots about people checking timing of the IP and modifying their IPs to do more wonderful things but I don't recall anyone making a fuss about the timing device.

This does the same job of an advance retard mechanism on a petrol engine - but the springs in there must also get a bit tired after 30 years
So my question is - do you think you could track the point of begin of delivery at engine speeds that are faster than idle in order to check the health of the timing device?
The pulse adapter and strobe will work to any rpm. I have used it to rev up the engine and see if the timing advances on several engines. They all have advanced with increased rpms, but I do not have a timing graph to know what spec is supposed to be.

If you were to look into the archives, a few years ago I inquired about the advance mechanism. On the VW VE pumps, the timing advance curve tends to fail toward being retarded and so fuel economy and power really suffer. I have seen claims where dialing the advance curve back where it should be has given an increase of more than 40% to fuel economy.

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