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  #76  
Old 11-23-2011, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
Now, are you dealing from knowledge of a valve having been ' divided' inside the bore and removed...or are you just sure that given the disc size with it 90 degrees to the stem it can not come out in one piece ?
The second option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
Didn't someone claim they had been able to line up the dropped valve and reinsert it from the inside....(?)
There is actually a procedure on aircraft engines where a valve in intentionally dropped into a cylinder to allow access to the valve guide, then the valve is reinstalled using a "grabber" inserted through intake/exhaust ports and/or spark plug holes.

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  #77  
Old 11-23-2011, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by libbybapa View Post
The pulse adapter on my good running '82 300TD shows the start of injection for #1 cylinder to be at 10° BTDC. The pulse adapter on his good running '81 300TD shows the timing for the #1 cylinder to be OFF THE SCALE. It shows that timing for the #2 cylinder is 42°BTDC. The pulse adapter shows the timing for his poorly running '81 300SD to be at 8° BTDC. The difference between 8° on his poorly running car and 10° on my good running car does not seem to me to be enough of a difference to account for the poor starting/running of his car. That coupled with the off-the-scale timing of his good running '81 300TD makes me think that the crank pulley must be incorrectly installed on two of the three vehicles. So my BIG question is:

Can the crank pulley be installed more than one way?

When the engine is at spec, the pulse adaptor will read 15BTDC. Therefore, your vehicle is five degrees late and his is seven degrees late. Both suffer from lack of performance, however, I agree that the difference of two degrees is not significant. The problem with his vehicle is late timing, coupled with another unknown variable that has deteriorated.

The TD clearly has something amiss with the crank pulley. Presumably, you won't be able to drip time it as well.
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  #78  
Old 11-24-2011, 09:15 AM
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At 15° BTDC it sounds like a ceramic plate with several large steel ball bearings bouncing up and down.
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  #79  
Old 11-24-2011, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libbybapa View Post
The pulse adapter and strobe will work to any rpm. I have used it to rev up the engine and see if the timing advances on several engines. They all have advanced with increased rpms, but I do not have a timing graph to know what spec is supposed to be.

If you were to look into the archives, a few years ago I inquired about the advance mechanism. On the VW VE pumps, the timing advance curve tends to fail toward being retarded and so fuel economy and power really suffer. I have seen claims where dialing the advance curve back where it should be has given an increase of more than 40% to fuel economy.
40% eh? Wow...

If you could get an honest 5% these days I think people would be interested.

From my understanding the timing device "effect" should kick in at about 2000rpm and after about 3000rpm it should be constant more or less. Thanks for your reply you're inadvertently encouraging me to get my hands on some of this kit to do some experiments of my own...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



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  #80  
Old 11-24-2011, 09:44 AM
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The 40% was on a VE pump. The timing advance in that case is operated by pump internal pressure which is a function of rpm and modified by a pressure regulator. The VE pressure regulators tend to gradually default to less and less internal pressure and so the timing advance curve gradually gets more and more retarded. I'm not sure how the Merz advance would typically fail. If there was wear that prevented smooth movement to the flyweights, then it would fail to being retarded. If the springs gradually got weaker then it would fail toward advanced. If both happened equally it would be rock solid.
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  #81  
Old 11-26-2011, 11:13 AM
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Whilst looking for something else I stumbled on this dynamic tuning information

Timing Injection Pump While Engine is Running - Benzworld.org - Mercedes-Benz Discussion Forum
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #82  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
Whilst looking for something else I stumbled on this dynamic tuning information

Timing Injection Pump While Engine is Running - Benzworld.org - Mercedes-Benz Discussion Forum
Army,
I have been doing some information digging on my jeeps #1 injector.
The sensor is just a coil that sits against the injector just near the fuel return lines. It has 72 ohms DC resistance so I guess it has many turns of sub hair diameter wire in it.
Talking with some one who knows a bit about inductive sensors, suggests that something as simple as a cassette player head attached to the injector may work.
Putting a reasonably high frequency signal across it will get a spike when ever the injector pintle moves. I am sure you understand the science of it.
Something for you to think about & play with one day.
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I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
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  #83  
Old 01-02-2012, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
Army,
I have been doing some information digging on my jeeps #1 injector.
The sensor is just a coil that sits against the injector just near the fuel return lines. It has 72 ohms DC resistance so I guess it has many turns of sub hair diameter wire in it.
Talking with some one who knows a bit about inductive sensors, suggests that something as simple as a cassette player head attached to the injector may work.
Putting a reasonably high frequency signal across it will get a spike when ever the injector pintle moves. I am sure you understand the science of it.
Something for you to think about & play with one day.
Not a bad idea - thanks for that. I wonder where that old cassette player went?
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #84  
Old 01-02-2012, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
Not a bad idea - thanks for that. I wonder where that old cassette player went?
Now Army,
I dont believe that you wouldnt have a couple in pieces that you wanted to find out how they worked. Any oldish car should have one !!
The local electronic shop probably has them in their rubbish.
I would have thought that you could come up with an even better inductive sensor !!
__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
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  #85  
Old 01-02-2012, 10:01 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
Now Army,
I dont believe that you wouldnt have a couple in pieces that you wanted to find out how they worked. Any oldish car should have one !!
The local electronic shop probably has them in their rubbish.
I would have thought that you could come up with an even better inductive sensor !!
Transducers aren't really the stumbling block for me. I'm trying to figure a way of getting some data acquisition equipment that will the do the job within my limited budget... oh for a spare 100,000 euros to buy a third of what I'd like!

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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