Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 12-14-2011, 10:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
Okay you still want to know if those shavings you found in the oil pan are bearing material or the steel from the vacuum pump. Thats what the magnet test will determine.

If steel you have to find where something is jammed up. It could be valve /piston. A piece of metal where it should not be in the chain/sprocket area.

Try for back and forth crank movement using moderate pressure. If none remone the chain tensioner. This increases the chain slack to test movement. If still none at all then the crank itself is jammed. If you have more movement with the chain tensioner off then the obstruction is timing of cam to crank or damaged/ Jammed above the crank level. At this stage do not concern yourself with turning the crank bolt in either direction with moderate pressure.

The 616 four cylinder engine has an intermediate shaft and gear drive of the oil pump. This is not used for anything that could effect the actual overall timing of the engines cam,injection pump or crank. That said the intermediate shaft feed could possibly jam up as well I suspect. Something to just keep in mind.

Anyways you now will have to locate how and where it is jammed up to make a decison on how to proceed. I liked the ideal of getting under the car with the lower portion of the oil pan off with a good light and trying to look around the bottom sprocket area.

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-14-2011, 10:28 AM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,164
This is really bad news! Your only option is exploratory surgery. If you're REALLY lucky it is only something jamming up the timing chain. Disassembly is really the only way to diagnose this.
__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-14-2011, 10:32 PM
whunter's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 17,390
Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkondy View Post
Im not sure, how can i check. I have an inspection camera, is there any way to look at the chain?
If there is anything jammed in the sprocket, it should be at the bottom = crankshaft sprocket.
You can try sliding the Digital Inspection Camera down through the timing chain area, centered on the Camshaft bolt.

The oil pan must come off for cleaning, even if you find and clear the junk from the chain.


.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-15-2011, 06:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: washington
Posts: 86
Oil pan has already been taken off, found several metal shavings in there.

Should it take a lot of force to rotate the engine with a rachet by the bottom sprocket?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-15-2011, 06:44 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,350
Is it producing compression or have you removed the injectors or glow plugs? If no compression, it should take moderate force to turn the engine.
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-15-2011, 06:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: washington
Posts: 86
The glow plugs and injectors are still in the engine
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-15-2011, 07:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkondy View Post
The glow plugs and injectors are still in the engine
Then it will take a lot of force to turn over the engine. Remove the plugs and it should turn much more easily.
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-15-2011, 07:02 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: washington
Posts: 86
Okay, thank you
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-15-2011, 07:17 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkondy View Post
Okay, thank you
Rather than bother with glow plug removal, I find it easier to simply add an extension to a 1/2" ratchet. You can move it with a 1/2" ratchet, but it is quite difficult. If you have an extension that takes you out to about 18", rotating the engine is not a problem.

The compression of the engine doesn't seriously prevent rotation until you have some rotational speed. At the speed of a ratchet wrench (say 5 rpm), most of the air compressed will easily leak past the ring gaps. You can hear and feel the compression, but it's not limiting your capabilities.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-15-2011, 07:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Rather than bother with glow plug removal, I find it easier to simply add an extension to a 1/2" ratchet. You can move it with a 1/2" ratchet, but it is quite difficult. If you have an extension that takes you out to about 18", rotating the engine is not a problem.

The compression of the engine doesn't seriously prevent rotation until you have some rotational speed. At the speed of a ratchet wrench (say 5 rpm), most of the air compressed will easily leak past the ring gaps. You can hear and feel the compression, but it's not limiting your capabilities.
But if you want to get a 'feel' for if there's anything wrong in the engine, I think it's better to turn it more quickly and smoothly which can be done when it's not compressing.
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 12-15-2011, 07:28 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
But if you want to get a 'feel' for if there's anything wrong in the engine, I think it's better to turn it more quickly and smoothly which can be done when it's not compressing.
I'm not convinced that turning it faster would give you any greater "feel". I'm of the opinion that it will either rotate with the available force from an 18" bar...........or it won't. I cannot see how you could possibly look for and find something that is partially restricting rotation.............
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-15-2011, 07:28 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: washington
Posts: 86
Removed glow plugs and tried to turn but the engine didnt budge. There must be a piece of metal stuck between the chain and a tensioner.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-15-2011, 07:30 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
Anyways you now will have to locate how and where it is jammed up to make a decison on how to proceed. I liked the idea of getting under the car with the lower portion of the oil pan off with a good light and trying to look around the bottom sprocket area.
Agreed.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-15-2011, 07:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: washington
Posts: 86
Althought i used a small wrench and didnt apply much force as i dont want to damage it any more
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-15-2011, 07:42 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkondy View Post
Although I used a small wrench and didn't apply much force as I don't want to damage it any more
Go back and try to rotate it with a 18" ratchet or breaker bar. It's a GD engine...........not a piece of heirloom china!!!

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page