Cold weather starting issues, signs of starter wear?
 

I'm noticing with my 1983 300SD that it's been harder to start in the morning when it's 25 degrees F out. I haven't changed or tested the glow plugs since I purchased the vehicle (6 months ago), but have noticed that turning the glow plugs on several times doesn't help and that starting the vehicle requires holding down the ignition key into 'START' for probably 30 seconds. The engine cranks and slowly, slowly starts gaining a higher pitch until it finally catches and ignites, when I need to then keep the gas pedal down for probably another 30 seconds before it will stay on without stalling.

Besides changing the glow plugs, is there is a way for me to recognize (or test) that the starter is wearing out? Maybe something using a multimeter? I have two starters, one on a running vehicle, one on a dead vehicle, and I was hoping to check both for quality.

If the starter is wearing out, is that something I can repair, if I so have the ambition (and electrical knowledge)? I have a spare starter, but there's a chance it is somewhat worn down also, and I was hoping to get it into an optimal condition onto my vehicle this winter.

Is it normal for me to have to hold onto the gas pedal for 30 seconds before the engine will stay idle/on without stalling at a cold temperature? Or is that a sign that the glow plugs aren't doing their job so well?

Should I be turning the glow plugs on 2-3 times, and will that make it start easier (without stalling)?

I'm also noticing on the vehicle in general that after not starting it for a while (several days, etc), even in the warmer weather, it's a bit hard to start and blows white smoke. What might that indicate?

white smoke on start up is insufficient heat for combustion on maybe one or more cylinders. i vote glow plugs or low compression... maybe both. If it is turning over fast enough to start i would highly doubt you need to be looking into your starter/battery/ or anything related.

The car has 375k miles, if that helps. It seems to have been kept in really good condition (at least engine wise), when I got it, it zipped with quite a bit of acceleration, even though lately it's been not so responsive. Probably needs a valve adjustment.

The engine definitely cranks, but it just doesn't ignite, at least not until after 20 seconds of cranking. Almost like there isn't enough fuel pressure or it's not warm enough. Cranking it for 20 seconds gets it started a lot easier than just relying on the glow plugs alone - maybe an indicator of bad glow plugs?

You got it, dude, get them valves adjusted...numero uno for cold start problems.

Step one: test glow plugs.
Step two: do a compression check.

Hard starting is highly more likely to be the result of low compression and glow plug system problems than a bad starter.

I concur with kerry but will add that you need to do a valve adjustment before you do a compression test. The valve clearances on these cars get tight over time, which makes the valves not seal completely, causing lower compression. Also make sure your fuel and air filters are fresh. Any restriction will compound cold start issues.

Also note that there's been bad fuel going around the last three months, which smokes white!!! Try adding some cetene booster (gray bottle) to your tank and see if that also helps. When I was in Fargo, ND, I noticed that the battery was going down and acting the same way . . . a hesitation before it kicks in the amps needed.

The Brushes inside the Starter can be replaced as can the Solenoid. However, a new Solenoid is expensive.

Members have said that using Synthetic Oil allows for higher cranking speed in Cold weather.

Also when the Starter is cranking your Glow Plugs are also supposed to be on as there is a purple/Violet wire attached to the Solenoid circuite (at least there is on my 123).

Was your Glow Plug Light acting normal?

Use only Bosch or Beru Glow Plugs and use a Glow Plug Reamer or some alternative method to clean out the Carbon from the Glow Plug Holes if you want your Glow Plugs to last.

With the kind of milage you have if the Injectors have never been rebuilt they are past due.

The advantage of a compression test prior to the valve adjustment as well as after is that you'll learn whether the valve adjustment made any difference in compression.

all good suggestions.
a search here under funola should turn up a thread on testing starter spin speeds.
also amp draws, and glow plug testing.
there is also a great DIY on rebuilding the starter.
it sounds like you have some valves out of adjustment, and you are using DINO oil.
synthetic oil flows better at cold temps, and is easier for the starter to push during cold spells.

I did a valve adjustment this morning and when I tried starting the car, it was not any better than normal. It was maybe 45 degrees outside (got to maybe 35 last night) and took several attempts to start it.

The glow plug indicator stays on for maybe 10 seconds, then goes off. Since it's not a valve issue anymore, I'll check the glowplugs next.

Problem is that I don't have a known functional glow plug to compare it off of to tell me whether I have a good/bad plug or whether I just don't know how to test them properly. I tried taking the relay wire socket out of the relay, and tested resistance from each hole to the nut on the glow plug, but never could get consistent results. Sometimes it jumped around to .9 ohms, sometimes it just stayed in the .3-.7 milliohms, sometimes just stayed at 0.

What is the easiest way to test the glow plugs, without taking them out and checking resistance (instead of current as I've seen some howto's suggest)? I remember testing my other car by having the negative multimeter cable on ground (on top of the secondary fuel filter), and having positive on either the threading of the glowplug or the nut. I don't quite remember. I also don't remember if I had to keep the relay running by having the ignition in ON, or not.

I also had a batch of plugs laying around from an old vehicle and I suspect some were good and some weren't.... Problem is that I could never get a consistent resistance reading with the multimeter whether I was touching the exterior threading to the interior threading, to the plug tip, the nut, etc. None of the tutorials I've seen out there really explain where to touch them.

Then again I may just have all bad (or failing/weak) glow plugs and so I'm just needing a good batch to check against (and maybe the guy at the store explain how to test them). Is it possible for the plugs to slowly stop working (and if so, how would I notice in terms of readings), or is it all of the sudden?

After I rule out glow plugs, what might be next to check? I don't think compression is an issue because once the car is on, there are no power issues.

It's also possible the injectors are original (375k miles), and so I don't know if them having old tips would cause issues starting. Also, I'm wondering if maybe something with the pump could be at fault, too. Though I don't notice anything odd after it starts.

When I start the car, the engine always cranks, but I'm not sure if maybe the starter is playing a part by not cranking it hard enough? And if that's at all possible, how I'd check the starter.

Put a trickle charge on that battery. Doesnt sound like its getting enough run time to properly charge it. Check/clean all connections.

I've been hearing odd squealing (every now and then, but sometimes continuously at a low RPM) at the alternator, as if the belt were loose. So maybe it's not re-charging normally.

I will check the voltage before startup - my understanding is that it should be ~12.4-12.6V (or more), and really not any less. I will also try starting it with a battery charger hooked up to see if that makes a difference.

I do typically run the car for an hour at a time, but since I've been hearing the alternator belt somewhat loose, that might be an influence. My understanding is that if the alternator is functioning, the voltage should spike to 14V+ while running.

I do suspect that there are several things the problem at the same time; I've had the car 6 months but haven't done any maintenance yet (beyond fluids/filters).

If the dash light is coming on, then you should have enough heat from the glow plugs to start that motor at 45 degrees; at least in my experience. You can pull the plug on top of the GPR to test the glow plugs with a test light to see if they're getting power, but I have a feeling it would benefit your car to just go ahead and install new ones. The light on the dash is supposed to not illuminate when one or more glow plugs dies, I believe.

Well the starter sure does not appreciate the length of cranking. It may inform you of the fact soon.

No sense playing around in my opinion . At that milage do a compression check to see what you have. If good enough go from there. You can spend a lot of time on a tired engine trying to get around that it is just tired. Hopefully it is not but at close to four hundred thousand it may very well be.

From one tundra guy to another
 

Assuming that the glow plug cycle is finished because the light extinguishes is not the way to manage a cold weather start. Learn to listen for the circuit to close (about 30 seconds from when you initiate the cycle, about 20 seconds from when the light goes out). My rule, is for every 20 degrees below 32, I add a cycle (10 degrees calls for 2 full cycles, -10 calls for 3 cycles, etc...) while this may drain a bit from your battery, it will give you a HUGE advantage by heating the pre chamber / block. In my experience, if it doesn't catch the first time, its twice as unlikely to NOT start the second. Unfortunately, the later results are exponentially worse! Of course all this is heavily and directly influenced by your use of the block / inline heater. Good luck, and consider a battery pack from WalMart (I keep one at the office, and one in the trunk...)

Merry Christmas

The engine block heater alone makes startup effortless, even at 25 degrees outside.

The circuit closing on the relay is the audible knocking sound after the light goes off?

As for engine compression, what would an ideal reading be (something capable of a few more hundred thousand miles)? What would a bad reading be, that would indicate the engine is at the end of it's life?

Nothing may mean the engine is near the end of its life particularly. It is just below certain compression readings will negativly influence the cold starting ability.

Again close to 400k is getting up there if it is the original engine that has never been apart. For example the compression readings may indicate marginal valves or that the engine was rebuilt or exchanged before you aquired it at some point.

Hard to say in advance what those compression readings are going to be. All around 250 pounds for example means it is no longer a winter driver without use of the block heater for example. At that milage I would have to find out . Just so I knew what I was dealing with. Harbour freight has a diesel compression gauge for about twenty five dollars. I would probably pick up one used on ebay first of better quality if I did not already own one. Borowing one may be another option as well.

Ah, I see... I would just have to find ways to compensate for the low compression.

I have to get new fuel return lines (ones on there are dried out and will break once I remove) before I do a compression test.

Also, all of the sudden, some the injectors are leaking at their middle half. All I did was do a valve adjustment. And the engine seems to rattle a bit rougher, maybe because of that? Not really sure what could have caused the leaking injectors - I didn't touch them.

Of my 4 diesel Mercedes, this car has the best feel and sound to the engine - when it's tuned right (like when I got it), the vibration is hardly noticeable and it purrrs. And had excellent acceleration. So I suspect the previous owner took real good care of it. Grease on the engine is in fairly isolated (and unreachable) spots, and other than that, it's more dusty than greasy.

When I get a moment, I'll double check to make sure the valves are at the right setting still, and the nuts aren't loose, etc. Took me 3 hours to get them done (I don't quite know if I've figured out yet how exactly to lower the clearance other than trying several different approaches until one works).

Hmmmm, with the valve adjustment, it seems that if I'm not mistaken, the lower nut is connected to the spring, and the upper nut is connected to the inner screw. The inner screw is normally threaded both at the top and the bottom end of the valve, so adjusting requires holding the top nut still while turning the lower nut clockwise. Top nut gets turned clockwise (to close the gap between the nuts) to add more valve clearance. Then the lower nut gets turned CCW back while the upper nut stays still. It sadly took me 30 minutes of fiddly around per valve, and now that I'm done, I finally get it! =(

ohm check the plugs in your hand by touching the leads to the big threads and the little threads. (body, and wire threads)
but if you have them in your hands, use battery cables, and visually inspect. just clamp the negative cable to the body of the plug, then touch the positive cable to the small threaded end of the plug, and it'll light up bright at the tip if it's good.

if your meter is jumping around when grounded to the fuel filter top, and pushed into the glow lead socket, then you likely have bad leads on your meter.

look at them this way.

the lower nut is a lock nut to keep the setting you get by turning the upper nut.

in other words, it's the UPPER nut that does all the adjusting. the lower one just holds your adjustments.

I loosen the lower, adjust the upper, and measure, then lock the lower down, and measure again... then of course, readjust as the adjustment changes as you tighten it back up... you get a feel for it as you do more and more valves.
don't mix up the intake and exhaust. it's easy to do.

It sounds like you nearly went nuts trying to do it !! :P:P

After you have done it a few times you will start to do it as vstech explains & you may feel like a bit of a nut for not doing it that way from the start !!
Best do the valves at least every year just when the leaves turn yellow before it gets too cold !!!

To me it can just be an exercise in frustation if I do not know what I have compression wise to start with. In your case If I know the compression is reasonable I would willingly spend the time to find the cause of the poor winter starting.

Other than a quick check of the glow plugs and getting the alternator belt tightened up properly. Making sure the alternator is putting out as it should the compression check would be next.

If you can crank thirty seconds steadily and the battery does not die it probably is in good condition. I am kind of hoping that engine was replaced or rebuilt at one time. It is possible to reach that milage on the original engine without a rebuild. But there should be some wear. How much will determine a lot.

Do you remember in the last six months what your oil consumption was. I like to see no less than a quart every 1500 miles. This has nothing to do with the condition of the compression rings. Just a slight indicator of the engines overall internal condition. The higher the oil consumption the more I like to see the compression check results.

Try removing the leaking injectors, putting on a vice grip and snugging them up, and putting back in the car. Replace any washers that go with.

Two Words " Block Heater"

Also, try some cetene booster in your present tank of fuel . . . there's bad fuel out there, displaying the same symptoms over the last 4 months. It's in the gray bottle at Walmart.