Hey Beagle I'd like to ask you something but it seems as though you don't PM / have an email link... you sound as though you've got experience in rebuilding / tinkering with IPs - can you recommend a good source of learning?

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

[QUOTE=Beagle;2854833]He doesn't say whether it does idle well when it is cold - that is why I asked him.


He implies it idles normally until it gets warmed up before the idle goes to hell. In his first post. That at least I found signifigant.

[QUOTE=Beagle;2854752]You need to provide more detailed information before anyone can really help you.

1) How long you had the car? Mileage?
2) How long has it had this problem? Did it start suddenly or gradually? Since you bought it?
3) You say the idle is worst when hot (that points to D-Valves) – Is it rough at start up?
4) Did you re-set start of delivery or did you just check it? Are you certain you got it right?

I try to be as detailed as possible, but I always forget something when I make a post.

I've had the car since summer of 2008, and it has 220,000 miles. I replaced the engine with one I bought from a friend who did a 5 cyl swap in his car. The motor has about 100,000 miles on it, and internally looks pristine. I installed this engine in march of '11, and it started missing a couple of weeks afterward, sort of gradually getting worse over the course of a couple days before leveling out at a "washing machine" misfire. Another important thing I left out, the engine sat for a long time before being put in my car. Not sure exactly how long, maybe a year? Was indoors. Keep in mind, all of the procedures I mentioned in the OP where things I did with the NEW motor installed. I'm pretty sure the injectors can be ruled out, they've been pretty well gone through. I checked delivery start but left it where it was. It doesn't idle 'perfectly' when cold, but definitely a lot better than when it's hot. It starts VERY quickly. Quicker than my girls' '04 plymouth minivan.

mmm any chance the owner of the 240 used unfiltered/undewatered Vegoil?

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

definitely not. I have run biodiesel through it, however.

Seeing as how you have a spare injection pump I'd probably give that a try. They are straight forward to change out.

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Jim

so, YOU are the original owner of the motor you put in your car?

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

haha, no, I am only 25 years old. But I personally know the original owner of the motor. He thinks veggie oil and all alternative fuels are the worst thing for a diesel engine possible. In fact, every time we talk about veggie oil or even bio diesel, his face gets all red and sweaty. No chance he ever ran it on svo. I gaurantee it.

Bosch FSM's are a good place to start. The old MW manuals I have for my workshop are hard copy and over 30 years old likewise the VHS training Videos. I haven't opened them for years I doubt if they are available today on CD but you could try Bosch Technical Services in Holland or Germany.

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Beagle

Ah! Now we are getting somewhere. And it raises more questions.

Something here is sticking, seizing or picking up at idle when the engine has heated up. Could have been D-valve plungers, metering pistons or injector needles. Where were your injectors set up? Not I would hope in some DIYers kitchen! Over tightening of injector bodies can cause nozzle needles to stick. You must eliminate injectors as the cause before moving on to the pump. Do you have or can you borrow another set of injectors?

If an engine is to be laid up for an extended period of more than a few months the fuel pump should be flushed out and run on inhibiting oil, you would be extremely lucky to get away with letting it stand for a year. If elements are left dry they soon start to corrode. Just what has that pump had sitting in it for the past year??

What is the history and state of your spare pump? How long has that been standing?

In the meantime I suggest that you see if you can identify a dead Cyl by loosening each line in turn with engine hot. If you do find a dead Cyl swap that injector with any other and see if it repeats. Then report what you find.

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Beagle

Thanks - I've got my grubby hands on most of that stuff but I've never actually found a manual with torque limits for example. I'll try Bosch and see what they say.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Really! I have never come across an FSM without them and I have manuals for just about every pump ever made. Usually they are all on a single page of Tech Specs. Maybe someone has ripped that page out.

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Beagle

so basically what i'd like to do first is rebuild the fuel pump unless you can give me one reason why it would *hurt* to do so. After all, It HAS been sitting for a year and its one of very few things I haven't paid any mind too as of yet. I'm much less intimidated by the fp than the ip, and I also have some somewhat decent fuel injectors I can switch mine out with(though i'm 90 percent confident of the injectors already installed). Will update soon.

sethza, I have nothing to add to your dilemma, but I just have to congratulate you on an excellent thread title, I grin every time I see it roll up.

Good luck, maybe in 2012 you'll fix the miss, and if not, cure baldness, in which case you will be a billionaire and can buy a new bluetec, leaving the miss for someone else.

Before you go tearing the lift pump down for a rebuild. Establish if one or more cylinders are involved if possible. If only one cylinder the lift pump is fine for the time being.

Try loosening one injector nut at a time when the engine is rough to see if it is one cylinder. Then tightening it back up. You compare the sound of each cylinder to the others. When the feed to that cylinders fuel is stopped. If you find one that makes no difference or least difference between fueled and not fuelled you have the bad cylinder identified.

Also if it cannot be pinned down to one cylinder check for excess air. Both these tests must be conducted with the engine warmed up and ideling rough at the time of testing.

You stated the car runs well at speed. This alone indicates the lift pump is not the primary suspect of the moment.

You also do not want to accidently compound the problem by having two things becoming wrong at the same time to contend with. Rebuild, repair. all you want after you locate and repair the primary issue first.

You may even have a local friend that may give you a hand if he has more experience. Certainly the lift pump might be marginal or bad at this time. Chances are though it is something else. At this time I see no indications it is the causitive component.

A few simple tests may indicate otherwise but those tests have not been done. Even if you want to substitute the fuel injector. It is a lot easier to establish what cylinder you should do it on. Plus the need to do so.

You asked in your first post for suggestions of methods of how to troubleshoot the issue. No one to my knowledge has suggested jumping at rebuilding the lift pump at this point. There is no way to avoid the tests either unless you enjoy mental and concievable financial pain.

Also these things are a learning curve. You will be far less intimidated by them after the first time. For all of us on site we all started someplace. We were not born with wrenches in our hands. You have to build your own self confidence.

The 240d is an excellent first learning tool as well. With the members on site you cannot go too far wrong. In my earlier days a site like this did not exist. I also own a couple of 240ds myself. I like to hear of them all running right.