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New (to me) 1987, w124, 300d
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Greetings - proud owner of a 1987 300d turbo. Owned a few w123s and I have to say I am quite impressed! Took her to the local dealer and they did the trap recall and that seems to have improved the non-turbo speed.
Being that I am kind of a newbie with the w124, I have a few questions for those that may have the answers.... Sluggish off the line - I think this has to do with the Alda. I found a how to on here and will give it a shot to see if it helps. Just did an oil change and was supposed to find what are called "sound encapsulation panels" on the underside of the car. I removed the front one to get to the oil pan. Problem is that the screws that held in in place will no longer thread to the frame. I have it up with some ties, but this is only a temporary solution. Anyone had an experience with this? Better to remove them? I kind of like the idea of an "oil catch". ;) Heater gets cold at low RPMS - I had a similar problem with a w123 and was able to solve it by replacing the "mono valve". I do not see one on the w124, any suggestions as to what the equivalent is to the mono valve on a w124? Drivers door lock - looks like the key lock on the drivers door has been jimm'd or something. Is there and easy fix for this, or would a locksmith be a good place to start? Oil Light - comes on when the car is taking a quick or sharp turn. Just for a moment. Would assume this is just the old moving about in the pan and the sensor is not submerged in the oil for a second. But wanted to see if maybe that is the sign of a bad sensor to come. Steering - feels a bit tight. Not like any other w123. Tires seem to be ok, but I guess they could be the problem. However, when I got her, the fluid level was low. I drained, replaced the filter and added fresh, but still seems a big tight. Is this the way a w124 rides, or do you think there may be an issue to check out? Don't have many pics, but here are a few of my phone. Being unloaded and the engine before cleaning. |
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Get that baby on Mobil 1 Synthetic 5w40 Turbo Diesel Truck Oil. It will be much smoother! Also, I have the wagon model of this and I never have the oil light come on during turns.
Did they do the trap recall recently? If so that is still top notch from Mercedes! |
If it's diamond blue with gray leather it's the twin of mine.
Oil light = are you sure the oil level isn't low? Steering = could be a dragging damper, worn upper strut mounts or worn ball joints. Could also be lots of things in the steering linkage. Picture = I don't see a transmission amplifier by the glow relay. It's not something to miss if it shifts properly. Did the car come with service history documentation? Sixto 87 300D |
The sound panels are held to the frame with special screws and little square inserts that snap into holes in the frame. Both are inexpensive and available from the dealer.
Stiff steering on a 124 can be tight balljoints. The test for this is to disconnect tierods and turn the struts by hand. It's a bit subjective as to what is 'too tight' or 'just right'. I'd be careful about the oil light. Could just be the level sender in the sump acting up but you want to be quite sure about anything relating to low oil level or pressure. If you have a bad lock cylinder there aren't too many options except ordering new keyed cylinders from the dealer. Installing used replacement parts will use a different key which may be fine for some people but wouldn't be ideal. |
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If heat is weak only at idle, what you need to do is replace the auxiliary water pump. Your car has a movovalve, but that is not the problem. |
On the stiff steering, if the ball joints are original replace them if for no other reason than as a safety precaution....it's just not worth the risk.
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Thanks for all the good info! When I got her, I changed all the filters, air, oil, fuel, etc.. Did a diesel purge as well. I'll give the ALDA a shot this weekend and try not to break anything. I'll also check the ball joints.
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I've not heard this recommendation, have you had issues with the ball joints in the 124? |
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In the OP's case, if he has ball joints that are now 25 years old, I say just go ahead and replace them....it's too significant a safety issue. |
yeah, from a DIY standpoint, I'd agree. or have the suspension opened up, and verify if they are good or not... keep in mind that front 124 ball joints can require entire control arm replacements... the 87 has replaceable ones, but not all 124's joints are...
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Congrats on your new "rocket ship"!
I have one like yours (green color? Looks like it in the pic). I love mine! Don't waste time fooling with the ALDA - just take it off & save it for the next owner. If you mind your right foot, it won't cause problems like over smoking. But you won't be able to resist goosing her around a little to feel the extra low-end power. As was said above, WATCH YOUR ENGINE TEMP!! If you have the "dreaded" #14 head, don't let it throw you for a loop. Mine does & easy to live with if you watch your temps. The oil level sensor should be replaced. Mine suffered from the same symptoms, light would come on, I'd check oil level only to find it was OK. Replace the sensor & then it will only come on when you REALLY need more oil. My indie said that this was a common failure on the early 124s. X2 on getting it on synthetic oil. If you ask 10 people on this board what oil to use, you'll get 10 different answers, but the Mobil 1 suggestion above is a good one. X2 on the auxiliary water pump. It boosts heat output at low RPMS. Yours is probably dead. X2 on VSTech's advice on ball joints. The 87 model is replaceable. I also concur with the advice of going ahead & replacing both now, rather than waiting for a failure in a far-away location. Mine failed in the grocery store parking lot, which was nice since I had just returned from a 500+ mile trip to the VA hospital. I don't even want to think about what a mess I would be in if it had let go on the road. Anyways, you have an excellent car on your hands that will provide you with many years of good service (not to mention around 30 mpg hiway mileage). Good luck & have fun! |
FWIW the auxiliary pump is under the windshield washer fluid bottle. It pulls straight up after disconnecting the level sensor and pump motor wires. There's enough slack in the fluid lines to move it aside.
Sixto 87 300D |
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I just got a copy of the W124 Service Library and started walking thru all the checks and adjustments in the FSM - throttle cable idle and full stop, throttle linkage, tranny feedback cable and vacuum signal, vacuum control valve, vacuum lines, sensor lines, resistor cap idle setting, etc, etc - once all the basics were set back to rights after twenty-some-odd years, there wasn't any need to mess with the ALDA. Quick check you can do to verify the aux water pump is toast - start the car and let it run until it's at some semblance of full coolant temp. Set the climate control for max heat, blower in auto, and while still idling put it in Defrost mode. If you don't see the coolant temp gauge drop like a rock by at least 5 to 10 C after at least 15 to 20 seconds, the aux water pump has went bye-bye. Aux water pump is also important from another standpoint - it's nearly effin impossible to get all the air vented from the heater circuit after a coolant change with a nonfunctional AWP. What's your oil pressure running at cold and hot idle? If I remember correctly, minimum spec per the FSM is around 1 bar at hot idle. Even if it's getting toward the low end at hot idle, as long as it zooms back up as soon as you give it some throttle it's still healthy enough for quite some time to come. |
Keyless entry system can solve door lock tumbler for around 25.00 . There are some nice how tos here.
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Yes, they ordered the parts and did the recall in less than a week and that was during the holidays. They treated me very well while I was there too. Ken Garff Mercedes in downtown SLC is great outfit!
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Thanks for the info. Just the service records for the first 100k of life. Nothing past that. Transmission amp.... interesting. What does it do? Shifting seems almost perfect.
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I gave the ALDA a try over the weekend. I couldn't get my 24mm wrench where it needed to go. The guy doing the DIY did it in like 5 mins, and I couldn't even get the wench where it needed to go. Guess I will have to see what other ways there are to get to it... ;)
On that note, this car came from sea level and now resides at about 6k feet. My guess is an ALDA adjustment would do a little good. Thanks for your comments! Quote:
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ALDA is altitude sensitive so you don't need to make any adjustments. Sixto's vacuum amplifier is usually called the "blue flying saucer." Its job is to mimic gas engine intake manifold vacuum, since Mercedes uses pretty much the same transmission for both gas and diesel cars. The vacuum level tells the transmission how hard to shift and the Bowden cable (attached to the throttle linkage) tells it when to shift.Your #2 picture doesn't show quite enough of the left inner fender to see if the blue flying saucer is there or not. If the car shifts OK, no worries.
A low oil light can be caused by a number of things. My '87 has to be 2 quarts low before the light will come on whereas my wife's '96 E300D, using the same float switch in its OM606 engine, isn't happy unless the oil is at or near "full." Different engines seem to react differently; I can't explain it. Next time you change oil you can pull the sender (left side of the oil pan) and make sure one of its vents isn't clogged. The sender is not expensive and easy to replace. Jeremy |
Flying saucer is there! lol. Looks to be brand new too. The trans fluid looks new as well. Must have had service not too long before I got her!
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What do you think this sound is. Engine seems to run almost perfect. However just as the engine is winding down from a rev to idle there is an odd noise/shake. I've tried to capture the noise with the video below. Anyone have any ideas as to what it may be? I know a shot in the dark, but I am constantly amazed with the knowledge found here.
300d - YouTube |
Without hearing it I'll guess worn belt tensioner damper fittings.
Sixto 87 300D |
Harbor Freight has a set of "Service" wrenches that fit the bill perfectly to get to the ALDA. They are thin and short. Hunt up a vacuum hose diagram amd verify all lines are clear and connected properly. My crossover valve and boost line were full of crud. Went from 23 seconds 0-60 down to 12 just by cleaning the vacuum/boost lines and repairing cracked ones.
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One link coming right up:
15 Piece Metric Service Wrench Set |
What's the famous name brand? :)
Sixto 87 300D |
Not sure what you mean by "famous name brand", these are just Harbor Freight specials that work well for removing the ALDA (and other uses). I have many Snap On and Mac tools and $50 for the HF wrench set beats $200+ any day, especially when you only use them once in a while.
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HF's website says "Compare to Famous Name Brand!"
Sixto 87 300D |
OK got it now. Didn't really notice their comparison. Saw them in the store and my OM603 came to mind quickly.
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Sixto - the sound does seem to be coming from that general area. Kind of shakes the car when coming to s stop or off a rev. Would the tension damper be number 332 on the attached?
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Yes.
Sixto 87 300D |
Great, thanks for the info! I guess it makes sense to do the belts at that time. Radiator has the green stuff in there so I would like to drain and flush it as well. Do you recommend anything else be done in that area while it is open? Most likely wont be a month or two until it warms up before I can get to it.
Thanks again for your advise. |
I didn't go back to the start of this thread so this might be a rehash - There are a couple of things to check when you're that far into the engine. The first is the belt tensioner system. The damper is part of it. There's also the tensioner arm and tensioner pulley. The tensioner arm should pivot smoothly without clicking or wobbling. The tensioner pulley should spin smoothly and quietly and should wobble. Replace what has to be replaced. Risks include sending the fan into the radiator on an engine sensitive to overheating and cracking the engine front cover. The second is the engine vacuum pump. The early style these cars came with have a... umm... unideal bearing design. The bearing can fail sending debris into the timing chain and oil pump and messing up the IP timing sprocket. A less dramatic failure is an oil leak from the crimped on front cover plate of the pump itself, often mistaken for a failed front crank seal. If you don't see 4 screw heads holding the front cover plate to the pump body, consider installing an updated design pump. Caveat = there is a middle production range of vacuum pumps with screws in the front plate cover but the old style bearing. Look carefully if you ever buy a used vacuum pump.
There are special tools to remove the fan. I get by with an 8mm hex key and a deep socket and breaker bar for the bolt through the fan clutch, and this pulley holder - Pulley Spinning Tool Give the radiator a good spraying while it's out. Spray from engine side forward. Don't use so much pressure that the cooling fins bend. If you don't see metal sleeves in the radiator hose necks, save your nickels and dimes for a new radiator within 5 years. Likewise, spray the AC condenser from the engine side forward. If you're more industrious than I am, remove the electric auxiliary fan before spraying the condenser. Sixto 87 300D |
My W124 95 E300D gave no warning noises that the right lower ball joint was going to fail . Luckily it dropped out while I was basically stationary or someone could have been killed and the front fender would have been damaged. Why is it always the passenger side ball joints that fail? Replace yours NOW!
My vehicle is an absolute dog, what is this transmission amplifier? Anything else I can check? I have done purges and replaced the filters still a dog. Why since its basically the same engine that is in my 97 E300D and that one is pretty quick. ANy link for a wireless door lock opener? What is this trap recall spoken about in this post? Would messing with the ALDA give me more power? Any instructions? Thanks guys! |
Hey Sixto
Sixto, you stated:
If you don't see metal sleeves in the radiator hose necks, save your nickels and dimes for a new radiator within 5 years. Likewise, spray the AC condenser from the engine side forward. If you're more industrious than I am, remove the electric auxiliary fan before spraying the condenser. Im not sure what you mean about these metal sleeves? Im asking because the radiator is out of my 1994 S350D because of a leak. Im wondering if I should have it boiled out and soldered for $125 or purchase a new one for $300. ANything I should look for to tell if my radiator is still in pretty good shape? Not sure if the shop will be totally honest with me?:( |
It's a dog because it doesn't have a turbo? What are you comparing it to to conclude that it's slow? It shouldn't be much slower than your '97 which has the benefit of a more accommodating transmission. Maybe you should scan for DTCs (error codes). You can build a test device that plugs into the diagnostic port to rear DTCs as a series of LED flashes.
Your car doesn't have a transmission amplifier. Be thankful. PeachPartsWiki: Keyless Entry Install Your car doesn't have a trap oxidizer and never had one. Your car has an ADA where turbo cars have an ALDA. By itself it can neither slow down your car enough for you to call it a dog nor be modified to make your car much quicker or faster. Sixto 87 300D |
It shouldnt be much slower than my 97 E300D but it is and thats the problem. I would love for this 95 to be anywhere close in performance to my 97 which is off the road due to a bad transmission.
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There's not a lot of support for fixing radiators with plastic end tanks. It's a when rather than if they're going to fail. If it's leaking, buy a new Behr or Nissen radiator. Some have noted Nissen radiators for the '87 300D need trimming to fit properly. Others have noted that aftermarket Behr radiators have fewer rows than Behr radiators sold by MB dealerships with MB part numbers. It's been a long time since I've read a radiator debate here so sentiments might be different now. I don't know what radiator shop technology exist that can reverse the embrittlement of radiator plastic. On a 140 Diesel, check the metal pipe that crosses under the radiator from the coolant reservoir for corrosion. MB put it right where road salt and grime collect. It's part of the pressurized system so when it leaks, it takes all the cooling capacity with it. Sixto 87 300D |
Have you looked into a conductor board for the '97?
Sixto 87 300D |
You might check this - http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/300145-e300d-timing-chain-stretch.html
Sixto 87 300D |
Are you sure you're getting full pedal travel to the IP? Have someone floor the pedal while you check that the IP bell crank is pivoting as far as it will go. Sometimes the plastic end of the throttle cable sheath cracks and deforms rather than translating all pedal travel to throttle movement.
Have you tried driving with the fuel filler cap off? If the tank doesn't vent as fuel is drawn, it can restrict fuel delivery. Have you tried removing and capping the engine shutoff vacuum supply at the brake booster line check valve? Be gentle because snapping the nipple means buying a new brake booster line. And make sure first that the backup engine shutoff knob at the big fuel filter functions properly. Or ask Jeremy about his STOP lever mod. The hypothesis is the shutoff vacuum system isn't venting when you turn the key to glow so effectively the STOP lever never fully releases. Maybe the nozzles need service. How's the mpg compared to the '97? Sixto 87 300D |
Sixto,
No I haven't tried any of your possible fixes for dogged performance. I'll give it a try. Could the engine shutoff valve actually hurt performance> Don't the glow plugs only help with starting the car and does not affect performance? The Glow plugs and the injectors are less than a year old and 7500 miles. MPG is usually 30mpg. Never checked the mpg of the 97 Thanks |
Considering the job of the shutoff mechanism is to cut fuel, yes, a faulty shutoff mechanism can restrict fuel in/to the IP.
Yes, preglow is only to get the engine started and from '90 to help the engine stabilize for a minute or so when it's very cold (afterglow is MB's term for this feature). I used glow as a reference because turning the key to the glow position vents the line that routes vacuum, as it were, to the shutoff actuator. If the vent port is clogged or the key switch malfunctions, the shutoff actuator isn't fully released and thus confounds proper fueling of the engine. If it's not obvious, I'm grasping at straws :) If a turbocharged car is slow, you blame the turbo. If a naturally aspirated car is slow, you blame... what, the owner? Sixto 87 300D |
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