Has anyone seen these things that you put in the airbox to increase airflow and horsepower? Would they be of any benefit for a diesel?

I've picked up one of these things and personally think it's a bunch of horse s#*@. But, if it's not too expensive (I think I've seen it for anywhere from $7 to $60), can't hurt to try it I guess. That's really the only way to know if something works.

Alex

__________________
1983 300D (parked for four years)
2012 VW Sportwagen TDI Manual
2001 Miata SE
1962 Chevrolet Corvair Rampside

I don't see it really benefiting a diesel, for diesel engines depend on increased fuel lubricity, not more air, for improved power. In fact, I've heard the air flow is constant throughout the rev range for a diesel. The only way you could tornado anything in a diesel is if you tornado the fuel. I may be wrong, but this is what I'm thinking.

They are a complete gimmick and worth little to no increase on most gas engines, or non-turbo diesels.

For a turbo diesel it is definitely ZERO benefit, and may actually decrease HP.

Save your money, if you want more power check things like your turbo's max output (should be 0.85-0.95 bar), valve adjust, timing chain stretch, ALDA tweak, etc. The MB diesels (especially turbos) are actually pretty fast cars when running as new. The trick is to get them to run like new!


HTH,

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Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

In diesels they are probably worthless but in a gasoline, i will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it works.

20% of 20-25 mpg is only an extra mile or 2 per gallon increase or so. Probably not worth it

I would think that these things would be a restriction in the intake flow, if anything! And they would actually slow the air flow down.

The comment about the "air flow being constant at any speed" is completely illogical! Hold you hand at the exhaust pipe at idle, then at full throttle. What do you suppose?:p

__________________
Ed
1981 300CD (Benzina)
1968 250 S (Gina) 266,000 miles!
1983 Alfa Romeo GTV6 (Guido)
1976 Jaguar XJS-saved a V-12 from the chevy curse, what a great engine!
1988 Cadillac Eldorado (better car than you might think!)
1988 Yamaha Venture (better than a Wing!)
1977 Suzuki GS750B
1976 Yamaha XS 650 (sold)
1991 Suzuki GSX1100G (Shafty Gixser)
1981 Yamaha VX920RH (Euro "Virago")
Solex Moped
1975 Dodge P/U camper


"Time spent in the company of a cat, a beer, and this forum, is not time wasted!"

240 Ed is right on this one. Think about it, if you are creating turbulence in the air filter box, it takes energy to create that turbulence. This energy is kinetic energy from the flow of air, where else can it come from? Since you are robbing this energy from the momentum of the air, you are decreasing air flow.

Now, in a gas engine, adding a little turbulence beyond the point where the fuel is mixed with the air can sometimes be a good thing. Such turbulence provides increased fuel atomization, meaning that the fuel is in vapor form rather than droplets causing more complete combustion and improving power and fuel efficiency. But there is no fuel in the air while the air is still in the filter box.

Decreasing or restricting air flow is a detriment to any engine, gas or diesel. Restricting air flow adds to pumping losses.

This is total snake oil. Don't waste your money.

Have a great day,

PS; "increasing fuel lubricity?"

Yeah, wuzzup wid dat?

__________________
Ed
1981 300CD (Benzina)
1968 250 S (Gina) 266,000 miles!
1983 Alfa Romeo GTV6 (Guido)
1976 Jaguar XJS-saved a V-12 from the chevy curse, what a great engine!
1988 Cadillac Eldorado (better car than you might think!)
1988 Yamaha Venture (better than a Wing!)
1977 Suzuki GS750B
1976 Yamaha XS 650 (sold)
1991 Suzuki GSX1100G (Shafty Gixser)
1981 Yamaha VX920RH (Euro "Virago")
Solex Moped
1975 Dodge P/U camper


"Time spent in the company of a cat, a beer, and this forum, is not time wasted!"

Lets straighten this post up a little. Air is the most essential variable in a diesel engine. Too little and you get reduced power and smoke. Too much and you make more power while running more efficiently!

Lubricity of diesel fuel is important, but not for power. Its there for the lubrication of the injector pump, lubricity is critical for its long life. Diesel fuel with a higher BTU content is what gives you better performance. for example, you will lose 1mpg or so with biodiesel based on the lower btu content.

Since you cant do much about air, skip the tornado thing. Others are 100% correct. its a gimmick. Dont you think it would be OEM if it worked? do you have ANY idea how hard automakers work to squeak just one more mpg out of their cars? If it was this simple, every car would have a super tornado in it! Its simply a marketing gimmick that was introduced right in the height of the gas crunch. I'm sure they made a fortune off it due to stupid americans trying to improve their economy because they bought huge 14mpg suv's and then couldnt afford to keep them on the road. Isnt it funny.

__________________
Matt
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI 145,000MI
1999.5 Jetta TDI 287,000MI
2001 Suzuki SV650S 26,000MI
2008 Yamaha Vino 125 11,000MI
http://www.crazymatt.org

Car 54

Well said!

When I look at a Ford Expedition or Lincoln Navigator, You just have to laugh. It is such an obvious ego boost thing, but it just comes off as embarrassing.
Same with these boys on their Harleys, with all the required clothing, and no mufflers, etc.
Pitiful..

__________________
Ed
1981 300CD (Benzina)
1968 250 S (Gina) 266,000 miles!
1983 Alfa Romeo GTV6 (Guido)
1976 Jaguar XJS-saved a V-12 from the chevy curse, what a great engine!
1988 Cadillac Eldorado (better car than you might think!)
1988 Yamaha Venture (better than a Wing!)
1977 Suzuki GS750B
1976 Yamaha XS 650 (sold)
1991 Suzuki GSX1100G (Shafty Gixser)
1981 Yamaha VX920RH (Euro "Virago")
Solex Moped
1975 Dodge P/U camper


"Time spent in the company of a cat, a beer, and this forum, is not time wasted!"

I would agree with the SUV comment, however I am not on board with you in calling Harleys with loud mufflers and/or their owners "pitiful".

LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES.

I consider a loud exhaust on a motorcycle to be an active safety feature. Cars are infinitely more aware of loud bikes. If you have a bike with loud pipes and someone starts to cut you off, or cut into your lane, just give her a little throttle and a sound that resonates the metal in the offending car and the inner ear of the car's driver definitely serves notice of you and where you are far more effectively than any horn could ever hope. The car driver not only knows you are there, he knows where you are in relation to him.

Hopefully the loud bikes don't disturb your peace too much, before I knew the added safety of a loud exhaust I was at times a bit annoyed.

donn


p.s. I don't own a H.D. or any other street bike for the matter, but in all honesty I do own/ride a VERY loud twenty year old two stroke dirt bike that the loud pipe serves as nothing but a performance enhancement.

__________________
1990 300E (118K)

Now cmon. I liked you... till ya brought up the loud bikes thing.

I ride a 1990 Kawasaki ZX-10.



See that nice big muffler? Of course. All the packing is removed, leaving a center tube and an empty aluminum canister to magnify the sound! I agree.. loud pipes are where its at. I have to wear earplugs under my helmet on long trips, but yanno what? People dont but me off on this like they do if i ride my 92 Yamaha SecaII with the original exaust system. its quiet, and people try to kill me all day long! Its true that loud pipes save lives. Ride LOUD.

Hey, your alright. you share the same dislike for massive SUV's that I do..

__________________
Matt
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI 145,000MI
1999.5 Jetta TDI 287,000MI
2001 Suzuki SV650S 26,000MI
2008 Yamaha Vino 125 11,000MI
http://www.crazymatt.org

The people I am talking about, are guys who haven't been into bikes before, or had a Honda 90 when they were in high school, (oops, I had one of those...) and need the commardarie of their fellow "outlaws". They are a huge market for clothing and accessory companies who openly peddle the uniform of the bad-ass motorcycle "outlaw".
I still think that these folks who spend a ton of money for this boost to their shaky self confidence are to be pityed.

But still, I hope it helps them, as sometimes an ego boost is needed in this oddly stressful world.

Perhaps a point has been made that loud exhausts alert auto motorists to the presence of a motorcyclist.
Or it could be that the motorcyclist is driving aggressively and wants to get ahead of the car at all costs,

I have noticed that bikers here in CA who split lanes regularly are being a bit more cautious now, as this continues to be risky behavior if you are on a loud bike, instead of a commuter bike.

__________________
Ed
1981 300CD (Benzina)
1968 250 S (Gina) 266,000 miles!
1983 Alfa Romeo GTV6 (Guido)
1976 Jaguar XJS-saved a V-12 from the chevy curse, what a great engine!
1988 Cadillac Eldorado (better car than you might think!)
1988 Yamaha Venture (better than a Wing!)
1977 Suzuki GS750B
1976 Yamaha XS 650 (sold)
1991 Suzuki GSX1100G (Shafty Gixser)
1981 Yamaha VX920RH (Euro "Virago")
Solex Moped
1975 Dodge P/U camper


"Time spent in the company of a cat, a beer, and this forum, is not time wasted!"

Isn't MB now using something like this technology in their newer diesels...either within the air intake or fuel system?

I faintly recall reading something about it on a MB corporate site (Euro?)

the injector pump on MB diesels is lubricated with engine oil, so is not dependant upon fuel for lubrication.

On the Tornado issue, I see no benefit on a diesel--especially if you have a turbo, which actually produces a SURPLUS of air. The limiting factor is fuel amount.

__________________
1978 300SD 149K miles silver-blue "Maxine" (mine!)
1979 300SD 318K miles red "Helga" (SOLD)
1980 300SD 321K miles yellow "Linda" (younger daughter's)
1980 300SD 148K miles blue (SOLD)
1980 300SD 153K miles green(parts car, SOLD)
Yes, I have a W116 fetish :-)