Nothing like supporting rumor with hearsay.

How about some specifics on the exact nature of the complaints about Monark injectors?

Better yet, how about some reliable evidence?

My comment is based on discussions with 2 injector service shops that are both bosch agents. They no longer use bosch tips & now use bosio ones.
Care to state where you get your information from?

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Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving

So...said shops no longer use Bosch nozzles, but use Bosio instead. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that Monark nozzles should be avoided?

What part of post #44 did you not understand?

There have been plenty of positive comments about Monark nozzles on this forum. Complaints seem to be few.

This is shaping up to be the next syn vs dino debate...

Anyway, it seems to me to be easy enough to arrange a semi-formal test.

1. Equip new nozzles of each flavor to freshly cleaned and pressure tested injectors.
2. Video the spray pattern and edit to play in slow motion. Perhaps even add dye to the fuel for better visual effect.
3. Upload to Youtube so viewers can examine the spray pattern for themselves.
4. Install in car and follow up with road test. All else being equal, if one is truly a better peforming nozzle, we'll see some variance in fuel economy.
5. Maybe repeat the test a few thousand miles later to see how they change after being broken in.

Of course, this is easier said that done in practice.

I'm both curious and stupid enough to try it, though.

I have a new timing chain and a very recently rebuilt and timed IP in my W115. I also have a fresh set of Bosch reman that were installed 2 years and probably 5,000 miles ago by the previous owner. I sent these out for pop testing 500 miles ago to help isolate a smoke problem.

If someone were to loan me a set of fresh Monark equipped injectors (are you paying attention Tango? ), I'd run a fuel economy test and take each set to a Bosch shop for testing and video.

It's not that more qualified than anyone else...believe me, I'm not. Rather, I think my car is fresh in terms of fuel system work. That eliminates a lot of variables.

Anyway, I'd like to see this settled by some sort of qualitative means.

Talk is cheap, gents.

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1974 240D "Boldie" 170K.- New timing chain/freshly rebuilt IP/replaced valve seals/injectors/upgraded stereo/new Bilsteins with Yokohamas/fresh paint and rocker panels plus lots of welds.

There's more interest to cut to the chase and compare 100K mile and 200K mile Bosch, Bosio and Monark nozzles. I suppose on pump Diesel, biodiesel and WVO while we're at it.

Sixto
87 300D

Even if the Bosc Nozzles fore the 617s were made in Germany or France they have a feature I do not like.
In the Pic you will see there is tiny passages. In use the tiny passages get plugged with Carbon (see #14 and #15 in the picture).
All of the passages in my original Injectors were plugged and on most of the Injectors I have pulled at the Junk Yard were in the same situation.
(It may be that if you do perodic Diesep Purges you can keep the pasages open.)

The drilled passages are for small amounts of Injected Fuel, like at idle.

The Monark Nozzles use a Facet like that later Bosch Nozzles use. I believe the Facet feature is less prone to getting clogged.

The Bosio Nozzles do not have any special feature for small amounts of Injected Fuel

Attached Thumbnails

 

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

If you buy Bosch Nozzles for the 1990s and later IDI Diesels they will have the Facet feature on the Nozzles.
What country are replacement Bosch Nozzles for that time period made in?

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

The quality is only one of the factors that Shops use to buy Parts. Larger factors are often what company will give them credit to buy the parts and availability. (are Monark Nozzles even available in your area?)

Along with the above is which Nozzles do they make the most money off of.

Where used to work we bought and sold Bosch Nozzles as long as they were available and Bosch made Nozzles for the application we were fixing.

We were a small shop and Bosch would sometimes send a nice letter and ask why we were not purchasing enough items as did Roosamaster (Stanadyne) and Cummins (we used Rotomaster Turbocharger Parts instead of Cummins and Cummins did not like that). If you are a shop certified by a company they want you to buy their parts.

The places we bought stuff from gave our Shop credit to when buying the Parts.
Losing cirtification means you loose your credit and have to pay cash when buying parts. This is bad because most of your Coustomers also pay on credit.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

are these rebuilds recent?

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

Well since Bosio has been brought up, here is one of Monark VS Bosio

Monark vs. Bosio nozzles

Charlie

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there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

I have newly rebuilt injectors in both of my 300D's.

The 85 has Monark nozzles, the 82 has new-old-stock Bosch Made in France nozzles.

Both nozzle sets now have between 30-40k on them. Both rebuilt professionally.

The Monarks are slightly quieter and smoother at idle. A tad less smoke as well.

That being said they are not horribly different. You have to have the two vehicles side by side for someone other than myself to notice.

In my mind, compared to the horror stories of Made in India Bosch nozzles, Id go Monark every time. I got mine through a forum member, not the 'other' place. I have never heard of a Monark nozzle problem until this thread...

(sorry to hear you're out of luck with the 602 nozzles shertex)

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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car

Another way to look at is quality pre the Cost.

Bosios cost more than either Bosch or Monark Nozzles.

If the Bosch Nozzles Cost more than the Monark Nozzles bought from the various Internet Car Part Sellers. (If they are made in India one wonders why they cost more than the German Made Monark Nozzles?)

The Monarks are the least expensive Nozzles that have good quality that at the very lest seem the equal of the original German Bosch Nozzles.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Google Search = India made Bosch Injector Nozzles

Had my injectors tested. Need input.
Diesel Discussion - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

... what were you trying to link to?

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

In the VW diesel world, at least the crappy Bosch Indian nozzle only costs $11. I don't understand why they need to be so much for MBs. Oh yeah, they're for MBs....

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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)