Bed time? Nah it was just lap top in the kitchen cooking dinner for the children time... I'm only 9 hours ahead of you Charlie. We're closer than you think - you have been warned!

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Does the 240D have valve rotators? Is it possible that I messed one of them up by rotating the valve during adjustment?

Thanks,

PE

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83 240D - 4 speed manual - Manilla Beige
189K miles, Tachometer mod, cool wooden shift knob from PeachParts, CocoMats, Original factory paint, manual windows, manual sunroof. Starting to add AudioWrap to this car too!

They have that star looking thing visible in the pic on the right.

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83 SD

84 CD

HI there, I don't see the pics... what is the star-looking thing?

What picture?

Sincerely,

PE

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83 240D - 4 speed manual - Manilla Beige
189K miles, Tachometer mod, cool wooden shift knob from PeachParts, CocoMats, Original factory paint, manual windows, manual sunroof. Starting to add AudioWrap to this car too!

In post #8, I've included that pic and just the star.
Also, an illustration with a red arrow pointing to it, but it's difficult to tell.
Lastly, a shot from the FSM.

Attached Thumbnails

       

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83 SD

84 CD

Sorry. I'm confused. My question was does the 616 engine have any auto valve rotation devices that could be thrown off by my rotation of the valve? I read a post that indicated that certain MB engines have valve rotators, and that by NOT using the "3rd wrench", you can disable the rotators, and mess up your valves.

Can anyone clarify?

Thanks,

PE

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83 240D - 4 speed manual - Manilla Beige
189K miles, Tachometer mod, cool wooden shift knob from PeachParts, CocoMats, Original factory paint, manual windows, manual sunroof. Starting to add AudioWrap to this car too!

i actually had planned on doing a valve adjustment tomorrow on my 240D and also was using the Diesel Giant guide (which doesn't mention any of this). just made my two bent 14mm wrenches tonight. but now i'm all confused. is the 'screw-driver-jam vs. valve-spring-cap-wrench' decision one that i will definitely have to make, or do the valves only spin in some scenarios?

The valves only spin in some scenarios. Apparently the vast majority of them never spin, and it's only some of them that have this issue. It manifests itself as when you try and adjust the clearance, the valve spins (you can see it), and if you aren't thinking about what's going on (like I wasn't), then you won't realize that you cannot adjust the gap unless you keep the valve from spinning around.

The Hazet wrench kit has the 3rd wrench, which pretty much looks like a 30mm socket that's been chopped up and has a handle welded to it (that's the concept anyway). It serves only to grab onto the hex head cap on the valve springs, and keeps the valve from spinning as you adjust the gap. The FSM shows the use of the wrench clearly a couple of posts above.

Sincerely,

PE

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83 240D - 4 speed manual - Manilla Beige
189K miles, Tachometer mod, cool wooden shift knob from PeachParts, CocoMats, Original factory paint, manual windows, manual sunroof. Starting to add AudioWrap to this car too!

The OM616 and OM617 engines have some common parts. One of these shared parts are the "rotator" bits that are fitted beneath the valve spring - I've added some more lines to the picture posted by toomany...



There aren't many ways to mess up these little rotating things at the bottom of the valve springs. They are most likely to suffer from a build up of crud as they sit in a recess in the head and there isn't any flow of oil going past them - not that really matters in most cases as far as I can make out. If you were rebuilding the head then it would be a good idea to clean them out - but under normal routine maintenace nobody is going to bother with them.

I'm sure that in 99.9999999% cases it is difficult to mess them up whilst adjusting the valve clearance so long as you aren't jamming great bit bits of metal down through the valve spring!

I think it is most likely that you will damage the valve guide by jamming foreign objects down through the valve spring.




Now please don't let this get out of hand. Be careful and I'm sure you are all going to be OK =>

What happened to my engine was undoubtedly caused by a total f$%^%^^&&ing idiot. I think that this is a really REALLY RARE OUTCOME

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Army, THANK YOU!

That is a brilliant post, and explains the answer to my question perfectly, concisely, and accurately.

I now have a tiny bit more knowledge jammed in my head, thanks to YOU!

Sincerely,

PE

__________________
83 240D - 4 speed manual - Manilla Beige
189K miles, Tachometer mod, cool wooden shift knob from PeachParts, CocoMats, Original factory paint, manual windows, manual sunroof. Starting to add AudioWrap to this car too!

I forgot to post these up again

They show the dimensions (well each square is 2.5 cm) of the wrenches so that the more adventurous can make their own!





Occasionally these sets come up for sale quite cheap. I think I paid something like 30 euros for mine => you have to be patient and wait though.

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Those rotaters are called Rotocaps. You cannot damage them by rotating the valve, but what does happen is that the rotocaps stop working over time. The valve stays in one position and wears in one position. If you turn the valve, the valve doesn't close anymore.

It is advised that you change them if the engine has a lot of miles:









Some of my old rotocaps didn't work anymore when I replaced them, some of them still worked to some degree.

so... on the MULTITUDE of motors on this site, when the valve does NOT rotate, it's a sign of stuck rotators? worn valve faces/seats? HMMM...

anybody with the FSM know if the spring wrench is supposed to TURN the valve face during adjustment? interesting...
maybe on a newly purchased car, or one that's been too long between adjustments, set the gap, then rotate the valve, then start the motor, then repeat... hmmm....

I have several 30mm sockets, I could cut a few sections off of it, and weld them to a handle...

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 560SL convertible
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
2005 Dodge Sprinter 2500 158"WB
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

@Govert - at how many miles did they stop working on your engine?

Do you think that if they weren't trapped in those muck capturing recesses and were kept cleaner they might have lasted longer?

When I spoke with the machine shop / engine rebuilder who did the work for my engine I think he said that in his experience they didn't fail that often. So long as they move freely they're good.

EDIT - some perspective perhaps? Mine were all good at about 100,000 miles

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

As far as I can see the FSM doesn't say that the 30mm cap should turn. Even chapter 05-250 which says that the rotorcaps should be replaced on high mileage engines does not specifically say make sure that they still turn. Well it doesn't say so in the English version. I understand Govert uses the original German version quite a bit. I have a copy too but need to start Windows to access it. I usually save up my German FSM reading so I only have to suffer microsoft products once in a while! (I'll put it on my list)

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!