New car for the wife-- BMW 335d vs. Bluetec - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

landev · #1 02-19-2012, 01:56 PM

Well, as sure as the sun rises, 18 months has gone by and the wife has become feverish for a new ride. She now has a 2010 Jetta TDI which, I think, is a very, very nice German made car. It gets ~45MPG, is comfortable, blah, blah, blah, but she doesn't like it because she want's more luxury. She has a love/hate relationship with my '96 E300... she likes the luxury, but hates the uncomfortable seats (she has a bad back) and my constantly having to work on it.

She has been wheeling and dealing on a 2009 BMW 335d with 30K miles (we're tentatively about a week out from this purchase) but I recently found a 2008 E320 Bluetec with 60K on it... looks very nice, but I'm worried about reliability of all the electronic gadgetry. Both vehicles are about the same price, their both Certified and both seem to be well maintained. So... which is the better value?

In reading reviews, I've stumbled across write-ups and videos touting the 335d as the best car available--PERIOD. The torque is impressive, and I'm sure it's a very nice car, but would appreciate feedback.

Thanks in advance!

-l-

bipolardave · #2 02-19-2012, 02:12 PM

We compared new a 335 vs Bluetech vs Volvo S60 T6.

The Volvo won out because it was the best value for money and offered AWD. Not a diesel, but ulimately fuel economy wasn't as important to us as bang for the buck and 4 season service.

Thirdem · #3 02-19-2012, 02:40 PM

Okay, being a HUGE Mercedes-Benz fan, I've looked at and researched almost every one of thieir cars. Now, the BlueTEC is better for the environment, and looks better, plus it has lots and lots of luxury. On top of that, MB backs their Certified Used cars with a 2year, 135,000 mile warranty, should anything go bad. Now MB almost went out of business in the early 2000s, due to drop in quality. However, that was from about 2002-2005. Everything past that is really well built. I would love to have the BLUETEC, but don't have the money right now. So, the BlueTEC is most likely the better of the two. Good luck, and God Bless.

sixto · #4 02-19-2012, 02:49 PM

If you like how a BMW feels you'll never be happy in a MB. Plus a W211 is a full category bigger than an E90 so the dynamics are further different.

Sixto
87 300D

landev · #5 02-19-2012, 03:44 PM

Thanks for the replies. I must admit that I've become a diesel snob as I've aged... I've got this warped mentality that if it's not diesel, it's not truly worth owning. Unfortunately, the only options in the country these days are VW/Audi, MB, or BMW. I've looked at the Volvo and like it, but no diesel, so it doesn't work for me. We have a 60 round trip commute each day, and the nearest city is 70 miles away, so we need the diesel economy.

I realize that comparing the two cars is like apples and oranges... one is more luxurious, one much sportier. Personally, I'd be happy with either (I thoroughly enjoyed my 1993 Nissan Sentra!), I just want to make the right decision here and hopefully won't have to go through this rigamarole in the next couple of years.

Thanks again All!,

-l-

destroy · #6 02-19-2012, 03:57 PM

You definitely don't have a unique affliction. I think all of us dieselheads are of the same mindset... we're just waiting for the rest of the automotive world to wake up, see the light through the sweet black smoke, and wise up!

The importance of the diesel because particularly important when you're looking at economy... it just can't be matched. It's weird.... I don't feel right unless I'm pulling up to the pump with the good stuff!

Renntag · #7 02-19-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landev

... I must admit that I've become a diesel snob as I've aged... I've got this warped mentality that if it's not diesel, it's not truly worth owning.

I think I can relate to that comment !

Quote:

Originally Posted by landev

Unfortunately, the only options in the country these days are VW/Audi, MB, or BMW.

It really is sad as America wants better economy, yet clings to gasoline. The Europeans have excellent diesels and get great economy. We have a gas powered smart car that doesnt provide impressive mileage, its unknown what lies ahead for hybrids that dont compare to modern diesels.

Sadly, the public needs to be educated and send a message to US automakers that we need more diesel options, even if it means importing the motors. We live in a world market economy, sourcing reliable motors might be a good choice.

On topic I cant speak for the two car choices. I like the VW Tdi, but prefer the Benz. I like the sporty BMW, but still prefer the Benz. For a commuter, I'd take the VW and maybe add a more luxurious seat. As a long time road racer, I have seen the feel of a race car change simply with a change in the pieces that the driver interfaces. (Seat, wheel, shifter, pedals). Consider a nice seat that maybe even has massage capability to stimulate blood flow while driving. The 45-50mpg of the TDi may pay for the high dollar seat in short time.

Just a thought. The advice is free, so you get what you pay for.

satyr · #8 02-19-2012, 04:36 PM

Hey fellow dieselhead,
I've experienced a similar phenomenon and was extremely underwhelmed at the Chicago auto show yesterday. I kept asking "Do you have a diesel model?" and most said no. When they tried to play up their 25 or 30 hwy mpg "midsize" 4-seater, whatever mom-mobile it was- I was unimpressed. With a cruising range of 230 miles? Why bother? With a 65 mile commute, if my wife isn't driving the diesel she has to fill up her (8 gal capacity/240 mile-range car) every other day!

The only diesels exhibited that were impressive (and on display) were the audi models. (I saw NOT ONE diesel benz at the show- disappointing.) The VW offerings were so spartan and cheap feeling that we agreed with the young females that climbed out of the golf tdi before we got into it- "Eeew, it's just nasty!" I don't know if it is possible, but it even smelled like glue and inexpensive plastic, and the color/texture of the squarish "cloth" seats looked like an obese woman's thigh that had been forced into black stockings that were 2 sizes too small...

But the next bit of info will be VERY IMPORTANT in your consideration of a BMW diesel. I talked to the BWM rep at the auto show about their diesel models and he said that BMW is ceasing production of diesel in the US and Canada, and that a main reason for doing that is because a number of municipalities and states are requiring biodiesel to be blended for all auto- diesel sold in those areas. He said that BMW will not honor a warranty repair on any diesel bimmer that has run ANY biodiesel- because (this is according to him) anything higher than B5 will wreck them. I explained that my understanding was that with increased lubricity and lower emissions, the biodiesel was a better fuel. He shook his head no, and said that biodiesel over B5 ultimately causes catastrophic failure of the BMW 3-series diesel motor, and because drivers have little control over what comes out of the pump- they are moving away from diesel in North America...

He mentioned something about a proposed additional "tax" likely to be placed on auto diesel in midwestern states as well, which would offset the increase in economy too. I've heard nothing about this but wouldn't be surprised...

satyr · #9 02-19-2012, 04:43 PM

And Oh by the way-
I love the look of shock on people's faces when I tell them my 1987 190d gets 42-45 mpg all day long. Think about it... 30 year-old technology and not only is it still running, but doing so at mpg that is nearly twice what current, similar sized gassers are getting....

destroy · #10 02-19-2012, 04:52 PM

Biodiesel is definitely a superior fuel in many ways, and any of its drawbacks are significantly reduced in blends. The old fashioned and real serious "cogs" in the system have a tough time accepting the fact that an engine can run on anything that isn't a refined petroleum product. It makes an engineers life more difficult if they actually have to design it to perform up to all the modern standards and still have it be reliable in real world standards. It doesn't seem like bio does well in DPF equipped vehicles (oil dilution, etc) and and that's the major concern for manufacturers. At least the newest diesel pickups have moved from B5 to B20 certified!

I think the disconnect between European standards and North American fuel quality is one of the biggest drawbacks to getting those nice euro diesels over here... which is a shame and maybe the only way diesels will break, since the big three know that most consumers over here aren't wise to the no-spark-life yet and are focusing their efforts on improving gas pots.

engatwork · #11 02-19-2012, 07:33 PM

I don't know if you have to have new or not but I recently changed a timing belt on a '96 Passat TDI (easy job by the way) and was quite impressed with the car. With the manual 5 speed it was pretty fun to drive. Seems the new owner was able to pick it up for $3k. I think that it is actually a better car than the newer VWs.

landev · #12 02-19-2012, 09:46 PM

Thanks for all the wisdom... it's helping ease the tension of this decision.

Not in order, but addressing some of the comments...

The VW TDI is indeed an impressive car (at least it used to be prior to US production, i.e. pre-2011) and I was very impressed... seemed like a lower end MB. The doors fit well, there are lots of features standard that were "high end" on my '96 E300D. A very nice car, but not one for the luxury minded, i.e. my wife. I certainly wish I could afford to keep this car as my daily driver and add the Bluetec to the barn (no room though) but I don't have the financial reserves for the venture either.

Though television is not my bag (I watch it while riding the bike at the health club), I do get a kick with the commercials about the "wonderful 27 MPG" some of the newer vehicles crow about... what the hell's wrong with this country's (and Japan's, Korea's, etc.) manufacturers that they think 27 MPG is something to rave about? My '84 300d does 30 MPG on a luke-warm day. I agree, there is a problem with the mentality of thinking 30 MPG is something to be proud about. I may get some stones cast, but I feel fuel is much too cheap in this country. If Americans were forced to pay the same fuel prices as the rest of the world, then I suspect fuel economy would "suddenly" become a key point and the reality check might force automakers to pull their head out and produce vehicles that we all know are do-able technology.

Thanks for the info on the biodiesel nix proposed by BMW. If true, that may very well drive the final nail in the coffin of the 335d deal. Kind of a shame though... seems like a very nice car.

Maki · #13 02-19-2012, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satyr

He said that BMW will not honor a warranty repair on any diesel bimmer that has run ANY biodiesel- because (this is according to him) anything higher than B5 will wreck them.

I'd be suspicious of that statement. Biodiesel has been widely used in Europe for years, especially in Germany.

satyr · #14 02-20-2012, 01:25 AM

I was skeptical about bmw killing diesel powerplants in the US too, but he was serious. And then he went on and blathered ad nauseum about the "new" technology in the upcoming gasser 3 series, which is "lighter" and "faster" of course, with "reduced emissions" and "up to" thirty-something miles per gallon...

Yawn....

ah-kay · #15 02-20-2012, 01:45 AM

I would go for the 335d. It is on my radar as I plan to get rid of a 300SDL. I really do not think BMW would back out of diesel in the US. The 335d nearly won the green car of the year, it came 2nd.